Christina Kokologiannakis: [00:00:00] welcome back to the Effortless Closing Podcast. Today we have the amazing Sandra Fidelis joining us. We're going to dive into her genius methods for breaking that 200 K ceiling from her high converting mini workshops to leveraging podcasts for authority,
get Ready for a value packed conversation, and if you're looking for more tactical help on implementing what we are talking about here, make sure you check out our conversation. On my YouTube channel.
Intro: I am Christina Koki, your post of the Effortless Closing Podcast. Born and raised in Silicon Valley. Now bringing the wisdom, wit, and well-oiled business strategies from my new hometown just outside of Nashville, where the pace is slower, but the revenue still runs high. With over two decades building businesses, some wildly successful others, gloriously messy.
Every step has been fueled by a love of real strategy and real results. This isn't about side gigs, and it's definitely not about hustle culture. This is about optimization [00:01:00] and building revenue, generating machines designed to make your life and your business feel effortless. After $92 million in sales of the last eight years while raising four little ones and building it all.
Wholepreneur. I've created systems that scale and a business that supports my life, not steals from it. From summers in Europe to road trips across the United States, being present with my family is the greatest win. And everything I've learned to make that possible is now inside the effortless closing method.
The framework behind this podcast, and here's the best part, you can build the same kind of business, the kind that funds your lifestyle, honors your values, and. Feels like you. This show is for the woman who's already doing well, but is ready to simplify the work, amplify her income, and finally build a business that flows with her life.
Every episode brings sharp strategy, honest insights, and real world tools to help you grow your business and enjoy your life in the process. [00:02:00] We don't just grow your business, we optimize it to feel effortless. This is the Effortless Closing podcast.
Christina Kokologiannakis: All right, Sandra, welcome. I'm so excited to have you here.
Sandra Fidelis: Thank you so much for having me, Christina. I'm excited to chat with you.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah, tell me, okay, so before we get into all the good stuff, give us a little bit about how you started, where you came from, all the good stuff so that our listeners can really understand the story that brought you to where you are now.
Sandra Fidelis: Absolutely. Well, I stumbled into this business back in 2011. I, I call it my quarter life crisis.
Okay. I was in my late twenties. I was working corporate and I. I just knew it wasn't for me. I just knew the cubicle life was not for me. And I came to a point where I was just like, I, I, you know, either am going to do this now and go before I, you know, start a family and do all that. Or I'm just gonna [00:03:00] stay here, you know, and, and do this thing.
And there's nothing wrong with that. Uh, but for me, I knew that on, on a soul level, it just wasn't my, my thing. So I up and left this, you know, really great, uh, job that I had and I was actually, you know, uh, supposed to be moving up this company and moved to New York City. I knew absolutely, well, I knew like one person.
And I started this two year journey, like trying to figure out what was my purpose. And I sat down one day and I wrote down on a paper the things that I wanted in a career, and they were to help people to use personal development, to be able to work from anywhere in the world to, you know, just have a flexible schedule for when I have my own family.
And about a month later, an email popped into my, in, into my email and it was a friend sending me an email about a summit, [00:04:00] a telesummit, an online summit. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. All these, you know, experts, all these thought leaders and they are marketing their business online and they're doing it globally.
And I just was like. This is the, the, the magical, you know, piece that I was missing. So I, you know, I had a, a background in marketing. I have an MBA and I was like, this is the way that I'm going to bring all of my skills and talent and, and loves together. And so I went and got trained as a coach. I started my coaching business.
I. Started actually with a telesummit myself. Oh. And I launched with a summit and I got 2000 women register for this, this summit. I was doing relationship coaching in the beginning and you know, I immediately got the power of. Speaking and doing [00:05:00] what we're doing here. Right? And like hosting other speakers and the sharing of the platforms that I got right away.
Now, I didn't have any of the other business stuff under me, but I did have a, I did have an audience and that's, you know, that's really what started it all for me.
Christina Kokologiannakis: That's amazing. And it's like people don't understand as you get going, it's not all about the fluff, like there's so much fluff. It's about the audience, right?
It's about taking the time to build. And that's super cool that like you just started out and got so many people to come to that and to hear you, and that just builds who you are and what you're about. So you came from corporate, you came from this other world, you came into here and then. Now you've created some really cool stuff.
So let's talk a little bit about how you're helping all these amazing women that you are speaking to and what you're doing. And I kind of wanna start talking about your mini workshop strategies that you talk about. So share a little bit [00:06:00] about that. Mm-hmm.
Sandra Fidelis: Yeah, so the mini workshop is basically a way for you to sell your, you know, mid ticket or introductory offer.
So that you're not out there doing like free webinars, right? So what we wanna do is we wanna bring people into our, I guess you could call it a funnel, but we wanna bring them into, you know, uh, conversations Yeah. About our, our working with us potentially, but. You know, when you do a webinar, you have what, like three to 5%, um mm-hmm.
Enrollment rate, and that's just a lot. Yeah. That's just a lot of work for not a lot of, you know, return. So with the mini workshop, what it is, is an actual training that you do over, you know, you could do, you're doing it live, you could do a three hour training, or if you're doing it online, you could do like three days, you know, an hour each.
And you sell it, you sell a seat, right? So it's not free. So you have people that are coming through [00:07:00] that are actually, they have skin in the game. Mm-hmm. And they're actually wanting to learn about this topic that you're talking about. And through that, those three days, throughout those three days, you give value in that specific topic, which is a hot topic that they're actually looking to learn.
And then from there, you just make an invitation into whatever it is that you are, you know, wanting to fill. So you can do these a few times a year as a way to either boost whatever it is that you're doing, what other, whatever other marketing, or if you're somebody who's been kind of, you know, just waiting for referrals and you're, you know, getting leads, but it's not.
Consistent. This is something that you can do, you know, let's just say every other month to get regular clients into your business.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Okay, so you talked about a couple cool things. So let me ask the first question. So you're saying this doesn't have to be a live event. This can be a [00:08:00] prerecorded invitation where they pay for the seat, so skin in the game, but maybe I'm gonna record it and they like, we can make it even as simple as maybe like a YouTube, right?
It's a hidden video on YouTube. You send them a link every. What, like, you know, every couple days or every couple weeks and like, they kind of get it, like is it drawn out that long or is it only a couple days?
Sandra Fidelis: Well, their, their best when done live, so. Oh, the best one. Done live. Okay. Yeah. So what I meant for the three hour block is if you're doing it like live in person, you could do like a three hour workshop, like on a Saturday or something.
Okay. But if you're doing it online, it's better to do it live. But you can spread it out over three days. Right. Okay. Yeah, you can, you can do an hour a day. And they're paying, you know, anywhere from, I mean, it depends. It depends on what you're selling. Yeah. But 97, you know, to 1 97. So it's like a, a low.
Cost, uh, entry. However, they are actually, you know, [00:09:00] having skin in the game coming into this not free, right? So you're going to get less people, but they're gonna be more qualified for whatever it is that you're offering that.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Let's talk about that because right now the push out there is Oh, just, just do free things.
Free things. Get people into your world. Let's talk about how that doesn't get you the right person and how it's better off to actually have a small number of people, but have the right people. So let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah,
Sandra Fidelis: absolutely. if you, if you go online, if you look at at least the YouTube, or I'm sorry, the, the Facebook ads that I get.
Mm-hmm. I rarely see like a freebie. Usually it's like, you know, a $27 product, a $47 product. People are like out there. Wanting to see if people, people are, you know, have skin in the game. If, if they're actually willing to invest even at a very low price because and I'm not saying that [00:10:00] free gifts or lead magnets are dead.
I think they're still very very useful. But the, it can get a little bit, what's the word I'm looking for? Saturated, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. Saturated. So I think, you know, it's a matter of looking at what is your strategy, right? Like what, how much time do you have to put into your marketing strategy? Yeah.
And then you'll see if you wanna start doing a bunch of, you know, free stuff, or if you wanna start monetizing it even at a, very, you know, low price point.
Christina Kokologiannakis: And it's funny because it's like getting the right people. I keep telling people we don't need hundreds and thousands. Like I know, you know, you look at like the Amy Porterfield's and the Jenna Kutchers and all these big names, and they're like, oh, we have lists of 750,000 people.
It's like, well, that's great. But they've been in business, I think Amy's been in business for like 15 years, right? So they've been in business for a really long time. They've accumulated this right. But what I keep telling people is the goal is [00:11:00] not to accumulate all these email addresses. The goal is to make sales.
At the end of the day, if you're not selling, what's the point? And so we can give all these freebies away. We can run these little free mini classes and all this other stuff. But if we're not getting people to show up, we're not getting people to convert. We're not making sales. So at the end of the day, you can put more and more effort, or we can streamline the effort.
And let's say the first time you do it, you get five people. But if you get five people paying. $97. I know it's not a ton of money, but you got five interested people. So I'm gonna share a little story real quick. So I did this little $97 event and it was for another course that I run and stuff. And I said, okay, well I'm gonna try it.
I'm gonna see who shows up. I had five people register and I was like, okay. Like I didn't really like advertise it, I didn't do much. I was like, all right. And I was still small creator. And I was like, all right, I did that. Out of the five people who showed up, three bought my premium course. Like at the end of the day, they were like, we need it.
We want it. We love it. [00:12:00] And now they're in my membership. Yes. Mm-hmm. So it's like, it's one of those things where when you get the right people in Yeah. Then you build an ecosystem, they stay. Exactly. They wanna be with you. They wanna do it. So I love this idea. Now let's talk a little bit about the number of.
People you need, if you wanna do this, can someone do it if they have a really small list, or do they need a certain size list to get started with doing these little, uh, mini events?
Sandra Fidelis: Absolutely. And they don't even have to come from your list. Okay. can be from your social media followers.
Right? Let's just say you have a very small list, but. There are some people that are following you that are, you know, you know are your ideal client. You can put the offer out there and you can even DM them and do it, you know, one-to-one and say, Hey, listen, I'm thinking about doing this. It's gonna, you know, we were gonna talk about this, this, and this, and you know, I think it would be amazing for you.
This is how much I'm thinking about charging. Would you be interested in a spot? And if, if I do it, [00:13:00] you can kind of pre-sell it that way too, you know? So you don't have to have this huge list. And to your point, I was, listening to someone the other day, and they said that they have a really large email list.
Mm-hmm. And it's actually harder for them to get in people's emails. Wow. Because they, you know, they're so big that their, their messages go to spam. Right. So the so smaller email lists, it's easier for you to get in your, you know, in, in your subscriber's inbox, in the actual inbox. So, you know, I think that the idea of I am not going to be able to make the, the amount of money I want.
Yeah. Until I get that big list. You don't need a huge audience. All you need is really to, uh, have your, your messaging of course, is the foundation of your business, right? And the offer that is right for that audience, right, for what it is that you're trying to, to sell.
Christina Kokologiannakis: So let's talk a little bit about offers and having the right offer because of course [00:14:00] with my clients, you know, we get a lot of them coming in saying, I don't wanna be so narrow.
I, I wanna be broad. And here's an example. I moved to a new area and there's this gluten-free bakery she wrote. I was actually talking to the owner, which is funny. We're chatting on Instagram. She refuses to call it a gluten-free bakery, but the whole bakery is gluten-free. And I'm sitting here as a specialist going like.
Why would you not call it gluten-free? Like you're gonna get everybody who wants that gluten-free bakery. And she goes, no, I'm afraid that if I call it gluten-free, I'll cut back my people and I won't get people showing up. And then she's like, and if it's just gluten-free, what if I don't get enough people?
And I asked her, I was like, honestly, how's your business right now? And she's like, slow. I'm struggling to bring people in. I'm all. Like, I literally was like, there's your reason, like we have to get really specific and so let's talk about the offer. Let's talk about being authentic in our offer because it sounds like in order to make the mini workshops really work, we really have to have clarity on what it [00:15:00] is we're trying to do, the path we're trying to take it.
So maybe you could talk a little bit about that.
Sandra Fidelis: Absolutely. Yeah. The first thing that I do with clients before I look at the offer, I look at the messaging, right? Yeah. So what are you, who are you helping and what are you helping them with? And also what do they not wanna do that you're gonna help them and not have to do?
You know? I like that. That's a really, really important piece of the, of the process. It's like, you know, you, when you di differentiate yourself, it's generally around something that your ideal client, uh, has tried before and hasn't worked. And you have something to offer that will help them get there, maybe in another way or you know, a let's go back to not doing what they don't wanna do.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, So that is your message, right? Who do I wanna help? What do I wanna help them with, and how will I help them do not do that thing they don't wanna do? Yeah. And then from there, [00:16:00] then you can create an offer and an offer suite. Mm-hmm. That really. Takes their arc of transformation into consideration, right?
Because what we wanna do is we don't want to try to stuff a year long transformation into six weeks. And that's what a lot of coaches do, right?
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yes, yes. And tell. And tell us why. I know why, but tell us why we don't wanna do that. Because there's probably people listening who are like, but why not,
Sandra Fidelis: right?
Well, because they're not gonna wanna move on with you and do, first of all, they're gonna get so overwhelmed that they're probably not gonna do the work, and then they're not gonna see the next, you know, uh, step that they can take with you. So what you wanna do is first really understand what you're doing with them and for them with the messaging.
And then you wanna really take into consideration what is that longer arc like, how long will I do I really [00:17:00] need with someone? To have them achieve what it is that they're wanting to achieve with me, right. Or through this process. So it's, let's just say it's, you know, a 45 plus woman. I've been working with a lot of, uh, health and wellness coaches lately.
Okay. So it's a 45 plus woman who's wanting to her hormones, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. And she's dealing with sleepless nights and moodiness and all that stuff that comes with it. And you know that it's probably gonna take you six months as a health or wellness coach to work with her and to get her, you know, where she wants to be.
And so what is that initial thing that you can help her with? Right? What is that initial, you know, six week? Uh, you know, even four week thing that you can help her with. And then try each other out. See if you wanna work with her for six months to a year. 'cause you may not want to, right? Yeah. You don't wanna take everybody on your deeper [00:18:00] transformation container because not everyone's gonna be a right fit for it.
And so you give each other the, the opportunity to feel out, you know, them, feel you out and see if this is, you know, this is for them. Moving forward is, and if not, you know, you guys don't go into that deeper container, but the ones that do, they go right into the deeper container, right? Because they've seen what you can offer and it's in alignment with what they need.
And so is the next offer. '
Christina Kokologiannakis: cause that transformation is quick. It's like it's there. They see it, it's happening. Like talking about the hormones. It's like, well maybe your specialty is like the first couple weeks I'm gonna dial in your sleep. If we just dial in your sleep and make sure you're getting your hour and 30 minutes of deep and hour, 30 minutes of ram every night and you're feeling good, you're waking up rested.
Let's do that. 'cause then you'll already start feeling a transformation, right? Like it could be something so simple, but you do that. And then you help them and then they feel good. And what I find is that when you help them and [00:19:00] you do that little mini transformation. It unlocks the door and it builds that ecosystem.
It's like, oh, they just transform this. Like I sleep now and I wake up and I feel amazing. What else can they do? Right? Yeah. We don't wanna draw it out. We don't wanna make it over complicated. And when I did my first course, the funny thing is I had, when I built it. I was like, oh, I'm gonna give them, I, I'm like a wealth of knowledge.
I have so much information, we all are right. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna tell 'em how to do this. I'm gonna tell 'em how to do this. Like, so, like, I got them into the course, which is great. But then when they got through the course, I was trying to move them to my membership and everyone was like, this is amazing.
This course is amazing. But then they were like, it's too much. Like we're still pro, we're still working through it, we're still creating it. And I was like. Oh crap. Yeah. I was like, I put too much and did too much where they were having success, but they needed more time, more everything else, yeah. To kind of go through it and I was like, it was too much for the course and it wasn't a super high price course.
So, you know, for like [00:20:00] $3,000 it was a ton and it was just like, it was too much. So I think it was Don Locke, if I remember correctly, said this to me and he was like, if you need to. Pay somebody right? A lot of money, but they get your results in a minute or two or in an hour. Wouldn't you pay more for that than having it for six months?
Right. It's like if you need someone to sit there for six months to give you an answer, and if you pay the same price for an hour, I'll take the hour. Mm-hmm. I'll pay you. A lot of money in one hour if you can fix all my problems. And I think what, as coaches, we forget that it's, it's very much if we think we need to give them more and longer and draw it out, it's like the faster you can get 'em a really good transformation.
Now we're gonna talk about pricing in a few minutes, but like if you're charging $3,000 and you're giving 'em like the super micro transformation, that might not seem the right fit, right? Because they're gonna be like, wow, 3000 for that. I know it was fast, but it wasn't right. But if you're gonna do one of these mini workshops.
And [00:21:00] you're giving 'em a really cool, fast transformation and it's only $97. That opens their mind. So when you go up to the higher ticket or you go to a higher price, they could say, well, if I got this much for 97, how fast and how much can I get for this next tier? And that's the way they look at, which I think is really, really cool.
That's why I like this little mini workshop. So, when you teach people to do it, you said that they can do it every couple months, every six months mm-hmm. For the clients that you've been helping, is there a trend or, or something you're seeing a pattern that tends to work the best in terms of how many times to run it?
Sandra Fidelis: Yeah. I would say six times a a a year. Okay. For somebody who wants, you know, consistent clients into their, whatever their, you know. The, their end front end program is that they're trying to bring them into, because that's generally what we're doing. We're wanting to bring them into that initial introductory offer.
So I would say six a year, so every other month. [00:22:00] Yeah. You know, you don't have to be doing this every single month. But that, that will, you know, will keep your offers full. And with not a, a, you don't, you don't, again, you don't really need that mu that big of an audience, right? You just need, let's just say we were talking about conversion rates earlier, and you mentioned you have five people and three of 'em, you know?
Yeah. Went into your program. So let's just say you have 10 people in the workshop. You don't even need that many people, and just say 50% of them go into your program. Right. So, and then you have them going into another deeper transformation with you from that. So you are not hustling for clients all the time.
Yes.
Christina Kokologiannakis: And I think that's what's exhausting everybody, right? Yeah. Everybody's getting exhausted. And I'm gonna ask you in a second about like if you do like a launch protocol or something else with it. So many people are just launching, launching and they're hiring [00:23:00] these big teams, spending a lot of money to launch, launch, launch.
And I kind of pull back and I'm reshaping all those launches and how I'm doing everything because. Yeah, like we talked about, I could get 4, 5, 6, maybe a thousand people signed up, but I would get maybe 20 or 30% showing up. And then even with the show up people, I still had to offer free call because in today's world, the way it's done now, 'cause we have so many creators, we have so much out there.
A lot of people are a little more savvy and so they're like, okay, well maybe not. I've tried other programs, I'm not sure. And then I was still doing a free 30 minute call. To answer their questions to help them to go. And then some people were like, no, it's not right. Some people were saying, yes, it's right.
And I kept thinking to myself, I'm like, all this pre-launch, I'm doing all this stuff I'm doing in the launch. All the stuff I'm doing after the launch, just to get them into a $3,000 course. I was like, holy crap. Like, it's so much work. So let's talk about, do we set it up for this mini workshop? Do we set it up as.
Like a launch [00:24:00] sequence. Do we have months and months of prep, or is this kind of just an easy just put it out there, let people join, and then go from there? Mm-hmm.
Sandra Fidelis: Yeah. I would say it's more on the easy, like, you know, reaching out to people personally, it's, it's. Once what I help, when I help my clients build this mini workshop this is something that they can take and they can just change the subject very easily.
Okay. And just redo their, you know, their, their presentation for it. So it's, you can take the same topic and do it a few times a year. And, or you can take it and you can kind of, you know, tweak it a little bit, tweak the messaging on it a little bit, but it's really meant for you to. Do it in an easy way where you are, you know, reaching out to people one-on-one, inviting them to, you know, to join.
You know, of course using your email list if you have, if you have it, but it's not, you know, some big launch that you're [00:25:00] trying to do because you're not really trying to sell a lot of spots. If you, you know, if you want to sell lots of spots, if you wanna get a hundred people into, and you have the audience for it, great.
But it's not a strategy where you need that. Okay.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. And now, are people using ads to this? 'cause I know we're talking about kind of using who you have. Mm-hmm. Not going out for the big numbers, but do people use ads or are they not really recommended for this?
Sandra Fidelis: No, I would say no because it's more of a personal thing.
Yeah. People you already have in your world. If you are doing re you know, if you're doing ads and you're like retargeting. Yeah. Right. Maybe, maybe that, but you know, this is more of a personal outreach or people who are already warm in my. In my, uh, sphere that you would be reaching out to.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Okay. I love that.
And that's, and that's the big thing. It's like, again, we're making this effortless, we're making this enjoyable. We're being authentic. We're finding the right people. [00:26:00] And I love, we talked about, you know, a little bit ago, like you could just DM people, like, like maybe you have people who've been floating around your world and they've been liking your post, or they've been kind of like just showing up here on this video or that video or whatever.
But they haven't bought, like those are the people this, if it was me, that's my low hanging fruit, that's who I would go back out to. And I'd make an Excel sheet or a Google sheet, and I would just go through and I would be like, who are my top like 50, 60 people or maybe even my top a hundred. And I would make a list and then I would start DMing them one-on-one.
And being like, Hey, I have this cool event. Can you make it? I would love to teach you a little bit more. You kind of hang out. I know you're in my world. I see you come do this. Mm-hmm. And when you reach out in that capacity, people are a little bit different than just the normal like, oh, email. It's like a general email to everybody.
Or the general, like, you know, many chat where it's like, oh. Why don't you join my workshop? It's like, let's get personal again. I think we've lost so much of that and in sales. [00:27:00] Mm-hmm. I remember way back in my day when I was doing corporate sales, you have to have that personal connection, but you have to reach the right person, and that was the hardest thing, and I feel like that.
The problem we have now, like instead of having the secretaries that would keep me from the executives I had to talk to, it's the, the many chats, it's the, you know, all this other content. It's this other stuff we're using. 'cause we're kind of blocking ourselves. Instead of just going to the person and being like, Hey, this might be right for you.
I don't know, check it out. Like, I would love to have you. I see you. But if you make it personal and you have your top 100, and by the way you go through your 100 and then you. Add more and you find more. I mean, people imagine just getting, like we said, 50 people, 30 people. Mm-hmm. And then you have 80% convert, right?
And then they go to the next level and the next level.
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Christina Kokologiannakis: So I wanna talk about pricing because I know that you talk a lot about, increasing your pricing, and I think, if I remember correctly, you have [00:31:00] a quiz or you have something really cool where people can see if they, the pricing
Sandra Fidelis: confidence assessment.
Yes. Yes. And it'll tell you how much you're leaving on the table. So we're gonna add that
Christina Kokologiannakis: into the show notes because I want everybody who's listening to go take that. Because what I want you to understand, and I talk about this all day long, if you are selling a product that is so grossly underpriced, if you don't have the confidence yourself thinking that, okay, like I can charge this or nobody will get this.
They don't see value in what you're selling if it's not priced right. So let's talk about pricing.
Sandra Fidelis: Yeah, so
Christina Kokologiannakis: pricing,
Sandra Fidelis: pricing is a part of being a coach. I feel that almost 99% of coaches struggle with, you know, and I hate to, to, sometimes I, I, I've put this out there, but it's, it's true when I've worked with male coaches.[00:32:00]
You know, the majority of the male coaches I've worked with, if I say let's put out a pilot program at 2,500, they're like, okay, let's do it. Yeah. With my women coaches, for the most part, I have to help them step their game up. Right. So like we have to do that gradually, and I don't know why that is.
Conditioning, I'm sure us women and I've. You know, I have experienced this myself. I'm a giver. I wanna give, this is why I got into this. I got into this business because I wanna give, I want people to you know, get the most value by being in my world. Right? And so I think a lot of coaches come from that place, but where we struggle is to.
Attach a value, a monetary value with what we're giving and what we're offering, right? Yes. And so that piece you can either do [00:33:00] it like this, I'm done and I'm going to be charging this. And, you know, I've, I've. Seen, and I've been actually the person who's done it that way as well. Yeah. But what I find has worked best is to do it at, in a gradual step by step process where you start, you, you've talked about this, you talked about this in my, in my podcast, where yes, you get good at selling it at this price, and then you go to the next level, right?
Yeah.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yep. And it's all about kind of like just starting low. And it's funny because I'm the one who just goes super high out of the gate, and then I'm like, mm-hmm, okay, no one's paying for that one. And then I drop it down, drop it down, drop it down so I don't start low. But I think for me, I have that confidence already.
And so I feel like it's a confidence level, like. Okay, so I don't wanna call out the men because I know I have men listening too. But like typically with men, they are a little bit more cocky. They're like, okay, like I am like you. But men are like that. I think it's just because that's how they're conditioning, right?
Built and conditioned and they're just, [00:34:00] that's kind of just how it is, and that's okay. I think that's great. And so they just kind of come into this just being really like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I have, you know, talked to some men and I have some men in my programs, even though I focus on women and. They don't have that confidence.
So I find when you have the confidence, you can go high when you don't have the confidence. So I had this one one of my clients I was talking to, she ran a live event. It was four weeks live and she charged like $297 for that. And I was like, four weeks live. Like, like, you're going live every, and she's like, yeah.
I'm like, girl, oh my God. Like you gotta be charging way more for that. And when we got down in the coaching session about it. She was like, I would never pay for something like that. So why would anyone pay for mine? And it was this psychological issue that she had. Yeah. Where she just couldn't see someone actually doing it.
Yeah. So then it was like, well, we can just go up a little bit. Try it. See how many people show up and then we'll go a little higher and we'll keep going. And it's [00:35:00] like you said, building up to it, but we have to charge what it's worth because the value, and you know this right? It, it's perceived also on the price.
It's like why do people buy the really expensive handbags? Right? Yeah. It's to show that you are at a certain level or you wanna fit in with a crowd or whatever, but they have a perceived value. Well, those handbags, by the way, are like $10 or $30 to make, and we're dropping 3000, 5,000, 30,000 if you have a Chanel one, right?
So it's like all these things, but it's a perceived value. So when someone sees what you offer. And it's only at a really low price. They may question it too and say, wait a minute. Absolutely.
Sandra Fidelis: Yeah. Yeah. Now there's something a lot to be said for the skin and the game piece of it too. You know, I just spent.
Actually last year, 25,000 on a coach. And it was a group coaching program. It was like a year long. 5K and you bet your sweet little buns. I had my butt in [00:36:00] that seat every single week and I was working my little tail off to learn what I came there to learn. Right. Versus, you know, something where you're paying like 200 bucks a month and you don't make that same effort.
Right. So I think that there is a, a real, real relationship between what you pay and the effort you put into it.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yes. And it's, it's just how people show up. It's who you get. Like we're talking about getting the right people now for your mini offer, right? For when we're doing that, not the mini offer, I apologize, but the mini workshops when you're doing that, we want it low, right?
We wanna give them a little taste, a little transformation. But when you start moving up the ladder and you're getting them into your ecosystem and they're doing different things and they're different courses with you and different everything, then we have to start looking at the right pricing, right?
And we have to look and say. What they're getting is it right for what it is? And here's the funny thing, like I said earlier, do you want [00:37:00] to charge the price for a one hour transformation or do you wanna give them a whole bunch of fluff? Yeah. And not charge a ton for it. Like when I do my rates and when I charge a lot for what I do.
It's funny 'cause my, my 15-year-old daughter's like, oh my God, mom, ew, no one's gonna pay for you. Oh, no one's gonna pay for that. Like, she's so funny. And she keeps telling me, I have to keep you in check because no one else does. And so I love how your family keeps you in check. It's like, so like, it just cracks me up because like, she's like my, the biggest one and she'll secretly tell me like that she idols me, but like.
She'll always like push me and be like, I don't think so, mom. Nobody does. Nobody buys your courses, mom. Nobody does anything. And I show her and I'm like, yeah, look at all the people in there. Look at all this. She's like, wow. Like, that's crazy, right? But it's important for me to hear that sometimes and stop and think and be like, okay, am I just charging or am I giving good stuff?
No. And then when I look at it, I'm like, no. Like I'm that one hour, like I'm gonna give you a fast transformation. I charge a lot of money, but you're gonna get the results. And that's probably why you, [00:38:00] there's something you saw on that $25,000. Coaching program. Yeah. I've done a hundred thousand dollars ones.
Right. I've spent a lot of money on coaching over the last, I don't know, nine years or so that I've been doing everything. And it's like, I'll spend the money if the value's there, if someone's gonna give it to me fast and I come to a realization quick, I like it. Right. So like was there something that stood out to you in that coaching program where you were just like, that's worth it?
Like this is, was it one thing or was it many things?
Sandra Fidelis: The result. The result was like exactly what, what I was looking for. It was kind of coming out of the phone sales, you know? Okay. And focusing more on other ways of selling. And that was a big draw for me like that. And so, you know, I think that when we talk about most of the coaches who struggle with price.
Uh, one thing that is beautiful [00:39:00] about you and where you come from is that you are already making money as an entrepreneur before. A lot of coaches don't. They're coming from corporate, you know? Yeah. So they are, this is the first time they're actually getting paid a dollar for their own thing that they're offering.
And coaching is such a personal thing, right? Yeah. It's like, it's like you're selling yourself. It's like you're selling. Your soul and you feel, so I remember like, you know, and myself and some of the, the coaches I've worked with, it's like when you get on a call, when on a sales call, on a, on an enrollment call, and it's so difficult to make the transition from, Hey, I can help you and this is how much it costs.
Right. Because of that soul thing, because of that, you know, it's, it's so tied to who I am. And so I think if you're coming into this space and, or you've been at it for a while and you [00:40:00] feel like you're undercharging and you haven't had a background, like an entrepreneurial background be, you know, kind to yourself and understand that you can definitely.
Work your way up to where you want to be. But I absolutely love working with entrepreneurs like women who have already generated money on their, on their own. And it's like, okay, now we're gonna make this transition into coaching. And it's, it's much more seamless. But I think that that's, you know, that's what it is.
It's, it's such a personal offer. That it's hard sometimes for us to like separate it from ourselves. And that's where I think some of the you know, not good enough to charge or am I valuable enough or, or is what I'm offering valuable enough comes in
Christina Kokologiannakis: and is that imposter syndrome. And I know I've talked about this on my podcast a lot and it's really like.
Am I like, especially let's say someone coming [00:41:00] right from corporate, right? It's like, am I good enough to do this? Like, is someone really gonna pay me for this? Is it like, and we get this like self-doubt. And I tell people I had a, I had a podcast where I was like, your brain is lying to you, like all the time lying to you, right?
Like it's telling you to keep you in fear. 'cause it, it keeps you in fear. You can't get hurt, you can't get upset, you can't get all these things. And so if we listen to that little voice that's telling us, no one's gonna buy it, no one's gonna do it. Like, oh, how could you, how could you possibly be successful?
We lose track of where we're going. We lose track of the momentum. And then we just either stop or we stay at these low prices. And it makes me really sad because there's so many women out there when I talk to them, they're working so hard, like so hard. And they're just like, Christina, I, I wanna live like you.
I wanna travel to Europe in the summers. I wanna travel, you know, and do this and do that and like enjoy my children. But I'm working so hard and I think it's because we're just [00:42:00] not charging enough. Right? And it really needs to be. Charge more. So I love that you're helping a lot of your your clients and, and really anybody to get those profit leaks to, to patch up the holes and start charging more.
What was the name of your quiz your resource? You have again? Go ahead and say that again 'cause I want everyone to hear that. I'll put it in the show notes, but
Sandra Fidelis: yes, it is the coach's profit assessment. I'll definitely make sure that you have that link.
Yes. I don't, yeah, we'll
Christina Kokologiannakis: have the link in the show notes for sure. Because I want you to jump in, take this like if you feel like you are just not making the money or you're just saying they're going like, I feel like I'm working so hard and I feel like I'm just not moving forward. Take the assessment, see if it's like, is this a profit thing or is this just, maybe your offers aren't good or something else.
But if you know it's a profit thing where you're just not charging enough, that can be fixed. Mm-hmm. We can fix that. Yeah. So I love that you have that. That's awesome.
Sandra Fidelis: And by the way, [00:43:00] the, the results that come from the, uh, from this quiz, there's, uh, about a 60 to a hundred K discrepancy in what they are making and what they, you know, could be making.
So it's gonna tell you exactly how much you're leaving on the table.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. I love that. Okay, everyone who's listening, make sure you go and do that. All right, now let's get into your next thing you talk about, which is podcasts as an authority platform. So I love that. So I wanna get into that a little bit.
You emphasize the power of an interview style podcast to build authority and attract premium clients. Can you share how coaches can strategically use their podcast content to nurture relationships and seamlessly convert listeners into clients?
Sandra Fidelis: Yes. So this is one that is really, really close to my heart because this is how I started, you know, okay, this is how I launched.
It wasn't a podcast, it was a telesummit. So it was a, the format was a little bit different. But today you know, yes, [00:44:00] summits are great today. I think podcasting is the way to go because it's a consistent, you know, marketing channel that you can tap into. The power of like, you know, this, you have your own podcast.
The power of like, you know, getting somebody on your stage on your platform and introducing them to, you know, your audience and then every other. Person's audience who's also going to be speaking on that podcast. So it's a way for you to cross promote, right? Yeah. Every, you know, speaking event, whether it's a summit or now a, uh, an interview style podcast is a way for you to cross, promote and cross pollinate with many different audiences.
And so that's one way to really grow your audience fast, grow your community fast, and, you know, get yourself out there, get yourself in front of a different audience. And also, you talked about authority, [00:45:00] right? Yeah. There's nothing that builds authority faster than you getting up on a stage. And, you know, virtual stages, like you can create your own virtual stage now.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yes, and I love it and a lot of people, so I know I'm gonna get this question, so I'm gonna ask it. Do we need to be, and I know the answer, but I'm gonna ask it from my, my, my, my listeners, but like, do we need to be on their stage or is it fine for them to be on our stage? Does it make a difference?
Sandra Fidelis: Well, I personally, I love to speak on podcasts, right.
I think they're awesome. But I like to have my own platform. You know, I really think that, it's, it's just such a fun way to market yourself. You know, like you get to have conversations with like-minded people that love the same thing. You, you love entrepreneurship, business building, coaching, you know, personal development and and you're actually getting in front of an audience without having to do much.
Right? There's a lot [00:46:00] of strategies that a lot of people don't wanna do. You know, there's a lot of strategies that lots of coaches just don't wanna do, like dancing on TikTok, for example. Not that, that, not that I'm calling that, you know, uh, a strategy. It's a, it's a, it's a unique
Christina Kokologiannakis: person who 'cause a lot of coaches, that's not our personality, so Yeah.
It's not, yes. Mm-hmm.
Sandra Fidelis: And if it's, if it is more power to you, yes. You know, that, that builds your audience quickly. But it's not for, for a lot of us. And yeah. So for me, I found early on when I first launched my business, something that I absolutely loved, and it's not only has it been amazing for me to get in front of the people that I wanna get in front of, but to meet people and collaborate with other people like yourself.
Yeah. Who I invited on my podcast and now I'm on yours. You know, the, the collaboration, the, the doors that it opens, the visibility that it, it, uh, allows for is amazing.
Christina Kokologiannakis: And it's, I [00:47:00] feel like it's, it's 'cause some people are like, well, I'm not confident enough to get on someone else's stage. Or I'm too new and nobody knows me and nobody has me on their stage or whatever it is.
And I tell people all the time, I'm like, just get started. Right? Yeah. Like if you are, so podcast is one of those, like if you don't wanna be per picture perfect, like you can just do a podcast. I do a podcast in a YouTube and everyone asks me, why do you make two separate things of content? Well, I'm a little strategic.
I teach MRR monthly reoccurring revenue, so I'm building my YouTube to get to the numbers so that over time it will just make me money. Right? Right. And it's a way to get out for people to see me, people learn all that good stuff. But the more you're out there and you're talking, if you like the podcast and you like talking, and you're not big enough to be on other people's stages.
Bring people to you, right? Absolutely. Like I talk to people, I have, hopefully he'll sign up and come on soon, but he has like 200,000 people. Like he has a huge audience compared to like what I have right now. And I [00:48:00] was just chatting with him and he was like, I love your content. And I was like, what?
And he's like, yeah, I listened to your podcast. I'm like, did you just listen? 'cause we're having a call. He's like, he's like, no. Someone shared it with me and I was listening and I really like it. And I was like, okay, you wanna come on? He's like, yeah. So I was like, you don't know who will come on and who will show up, but like mm-hmm.
I, I like getting on other people's stages. I haven't done as much of it 'cause I actually kind of enjoy interviewing people of mine. But when I have people like you, Sandra, who come on, I love learning new stuff or just chatting about what we love, like different things. 'cause we are very similar. And so when we're having these conversations I'm like, yes, yes, yes.
You know, and I like that. And if you enjoy that, it's like, do it. If you don't have a podcast, it's not hard to start it. Yeah. Do you teach, do you teach your clients how to start the podcast or are you getting people who already have a podcast? Yes. Okay.
Sandra Fidelis: I do. Well, both, I'm actually, you know, most of the coaches I've worked with so far are brand new to podcasting.
Okay. And, uh, we work on getting, uh, [00:49:00] on launching their interview style podcast, not just a podcast. 'cause you could put a podcast out there and nobody listens to it. You know, just you, you out there, you know,
Christina Kokologiannakis: It's, it's hard to get people going when you start a new one. Like when I first started mine, it's only been.
Oh my gosh. I think I've only been doing it for 30 weeks, which is like crazy to think about that. But when I first started it was like I got two downloads. Woo-hoo. Like it was like, because even though I had an audience, it was just getting people into it. Yes. And the groove of it, it's a little, if you don't put the right mindset in, when you start, you are gonna be like, oh, you only got two people.
Oh my gosh, you feel all bad. But I'm like, two people's amazing. I know.
Sandra Fidelis: And I think that if you're doing like a. Solo podcast where you're, you're teaching or something? Yeah. Most people, well, podcasts, you know, across the board, like I think after 10 episodes, people generally quit, you know? Yes. And so if you are doing it as an interview style podcast, you are actually growing your, your [00:50:00] audience much faster.
You're getting in front of that, that speaker's audience and. I feel like there's more skin in the game. It's like, oh, I don't wanna do my podcast episode today, so I'm not gonna do it. But you have an interview with someone, so you have to actually show up for that. So it keeps you, you know, consistent and, you know, it just, it, there's nothing that compares to being able to, like, you know, when you're talking about organic growth, to be able to partner and borrow other people's audience.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. And it it's the cross pollination, right? Yeah. And it's the funny thing of like, Hey, this person comes on, we're gonna track some people who, who love me, but he's also, or you're like, like, 'cause we're talking about like going to your quiz and getting information from you. Like, I'm gonna have some of my listeners go over there and I'm hoping a lot of 'em will and check out, you know, are they undercharging?
Like there's so many different ways of meeting different people. And before we started you know, recording today, we were talking about like, I, I love bringing people on who do [00:51:00] very similar things to me. I'm not afraid to have someone on like that because one, it's fun conversation, and two, not everybody listening to my podcast might be the right person for me.
They might listen and say, oh, Sandra's really cool, like, she has this thing that I need, like, I'm gonna go check her out. And I applaud that. I'm like, yes, because I again. I live in the world of abundance. I don't need everybody. I want the right people. And if you don't think I'm right for you, I don't want you in my programs.
Right? Yeah. Like I want you to find someone who fits you and feels right for you because then you stay, you have success. Like all that really matters. And it has to do with the coach, right? And how the coach shows up and what they're talking about and the value they give. And everybody has their unique ways of doing it.
So I love that. So we have the interview style podcast. Do you teach people to do it weekly, monthly? Like what do you kind of teach in terms of campaign? I generally
Sandra Fidelis: say weekly. Okay. Weekly is a nice, you know, flow because again, you're getting in front of other people's [00:52:00] audience. Then one, one speaker week I think is good.
But I do, I am also starting to work with those who have a podcast, who have started a podcast and maybe they haven't had, uh, because they're, they're a solo podcast. Yeah. They haven't had the success they've wanted with it, and they wanna transition it to a, an interview style.
Christina Kokologiannakis: And then do you have them put the podcast everywhere?
Do you have them go on these? I, I'm not as versed in this by the way, like I'm still learning all these, 'cause I just put mine on Kajabi and then I have a syndicate out to Apple Podcast Spotify, and then of course I do it YouTube. But do you have certain platforms? Do you have a program that they use?
Like give us a little little dip into that so they can kind of think about it.
Sandra Fidelis: Yeah, so we have a whole piece around are, is your podcast going to be audio only or video? And what are the options for you to do audio only and just have it you know. One shot, like put out to all of the [00:53:00] podcast platforms.
And then if you are gonna be doing video, where are you gonna be doing it? You know, how are you going to be providing the video? For example, my videos are premium, right? So they're gonna be coming to my website for my videos, and they're gonna be offered things, you know, like a freebie or something like that.
So there's different, definitely different ways that, uh, we teach how to actually grow your audience with different types of, you know, uh, podcasts versus, you know, like it's audio versus video.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. And that's the, and this is what I love about being an entrepreneur. So you are just like, I'm gonna keep that as a premium where I am.
Like I'm gonna drop it into YouTube and we're gonna be recording here soon, our YouTube one. But like, I'm all about my podcast being conversational, just getting, kind of having this conversation, letting it flow. But on my YouTubes, I like it to be very tactical. Like give us step by step, give us more details.
Help us out. 'cause I find that's why people go to YouTube. But as an entrepreneur, [00:54:00] right? And Sandra can help you with this. Like as you start, maybe you're like, I don't know if I wanna do it that way. Maybe I don't want video at all. Maybe I just want audio only, or, 'cause I remember Jenna Kutcher talking about this, where she was like, I tried YouTube.
And I don't wanna do it. She was like, I do not wanna be showing up, like face ready and everything every day. She was like, it was too much. And the cool thing is she recorded a lot of her podcast and video, which nobody can see us. Mm-hmm. But we're doing it right now. Right? We're on Zoom, we're talking. But but she uploaded those on YouTube and I think she had like 5, 6, 700 or something of those instantly.
'cause she recorded them all, but then she wanted to try to keep doing it and she's like, it's not for me. I don't wanna do it. Right, right. And that's what you can choose. Like, you can choose where you wanna put it, what you wanna do, how you want it to flow, how frequently. Yep. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Like I like the once a week too, but I batch everything.
So maybe we'll talk about batching real quick, but like I batch everything. So this is my content week and I have all my [00:55:00] interviews set up already, and I have enough for my four weeks of YouTube and my four weeks of my podcast. It's all done in one week. One week, and then I have my editor who goes through and gets it all prepped and ready and then each week it comes out.
You don't have to be like, every week I have to record. Yeah, it's like maybe I'll sit down And podcasts are fun because sometimes I'll sit in bed late at night and just my microphone and my computer and I'm reading my podcast like I'm sitting there, like I have a script usually, and I'll go through my script and I read and I talk about what I want to talk about.
If not, by the way, guys. I would be on such tangents like everywhere, because that's how I talk. I'm long form content. Yep. So I found that if I write out what I wanna say first and then read it, they're much better podcasts than me just free-forming it. But like you can do that with a podcast, like you don't have to make it a nine to five, like you could be at midnight and record it if you want.
Mm-hmm. Like it doesn't matter. But consistency, right? Like I'm sure you talk about consistency in your program. So let's talk a little bit about that. Share us. [00:56:00] Why do we need to be consistent?
Sandra Fidelis: Yeah. I would, you know, consistency is really about trust, like building trust with your audience, knowing that, hey, if I say I'm going to be doing this once a week, you're gonna get it once a week, right?
If I say, this is gonna show up once a month. It's, it really is about doing what you said you were going to do. And that builds trust and that builds trust in other things that you have for them, like your offers. Right. Uh, also I think, you know, the, your, your podcast and video and, and content plan to do it all in a week is genius.
I love that. You know, because like, you're ready, like I do batch my interviews with my guests. But I do it generally like on a Tuesday, and I'll have several done that day, which is the day that I get my hair done and you know, I got makeup on. I don't have it up in a bun like it usually is.
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, things like that will help you stay [00:57:00] consistent.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. And I find, I think it was Russell Brunson who said pick one platform, stay consistent for a year, and you'll never have to worry about money again. Mm-hmm. And I've been consistent for 30 something weeks. Right. And it's like, it's amazing to realize just what has come from all of that, where it's been, just put it out, put it out, put it out.
Now I'm trying to be more consistent in my YouTube shorts and it's like, it's literally just me up uploading them. I don't really have to do much for them, but I keep forgetting. So I was like, I have to get consistent because I've gotten about 40 new followers in a few weeks of just having shorts. So I'm like, okay, the shorts are, shorts are great.
They're great. They're like feeding into my YouTube. So more people see my content. But I haven't been consistent. 'cause I forget and I get busy and then I'm like, okay, so now I need to be more consistent. Like, and this is, I get a tip
Sandra Fidelis: for you. Yes. We, like, that's one thing that I needed to get off my plate right away and it was like life changing.
I have, uh, I create the content for, you know, a lot of the, [00:58:00] the stuff that I'm putting out on, uh, YouTube, well, shorts and you know, Instagram and all the other ones. Yeah. But they, I have a company actually post it. So I love that you give it to them and they just post it for you everywhere. Oh, we'll have to talk about that for sure, because,
Christina Kokologiannakis: yes, because that's so, I have someone who helps me post my podcast and will help me with some other stuff, and I tell people all the time, I have a really small team.
I had a huge team for a while. I had spent so much money, so much money. Mm-hmm. In 12 months and I wasn't making that kind of money like I was, like I was spending way more than I was making, and I've been in business for a long time, so I'm like, this is bad business. Like this is not good. Yeah. And I have another business that was feeding it so I could do it, but then I stopped and realized this is not what I wanna do.
So now I have a really lean team, like really lean, and so I have a couple people that do a couple things and I do the rest. Because I'd rather make more of a profit and then invest later on. Right. Exactly. But this is somewhere where I will tell people invest. Yes. Even if you get a VA who can just post [00:59:00] something and you're paying, you know, maybe $10 an hour or $15 an hour, and you only need them for like four hours a month, like.
And these are things that really make a difference because the consistency is so, so important. And like you said, it's the trust so that when they come into your mini workshop, they can trust, you're gonna show up and you're gonna teach 'em. They can trust that when they come to your next program, that you're going to give them a transformation because they've been seeing you consistently for however long.
Right. 'cause it takes some time. Yep. So I think that's fantastic. We are almost. At the end so why don't you share, and I'll put all these in the show notes too, where is the best place for someone who's interested in what you do to find you?
Sandra Fidelis: Well, you can go to my website, sandra fidelis.com. Uh, you can also check out my podcast, which you are gonna be on there next week.
Your, uh, interview drops next week. It's simple Client attraction for coaches.com. you can also find me on Instagram at I am Sandra Fidelis. And yeah, those are the, [01:00:00] I would say those are the best places.
Christina Kokologiannakis: If you find her on Instagram, don't just stalk her on Instagram. Send her a DM and say hi. Like I'm all about reaching out, being, being proactive, you know, have a conversation.
Right. I think that's important. That's awesome. Well, Sandra, it has been a pleasure. It's such a great conversation. I've loved it. I've learned a lot of cool stuff as well. So thank you everyone for joining me on my podcast today, and make sure to catch us on YouTube. Where we're gonna go a little bit deeper with some more tactical stuff that you can apply right now.
Thank you, Sandra, for joining me.
Sandra Fidelis: Thank you so much for
Christina Kokologiannakis: having me.
