Christina Kokologiannakis: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Effortless Closing Podcast. Today I'm sitting down with a powerhouse in the sales and mindset space. Christine Cochrane.
She's a high ticket sales strategist, business mindset coach, and the bestselling author of Turn Imposter Syndrome Into Your Superpower. She helps B2B female entrepreneurs like you close, aligned high ticket clients without burning out or selling your soul. We're diving into everything from authentic sales strategies to breaking through your inner blocks, building six figures and multiple six figure businesses, and exactly how to step into your next level identity without the constant hustle.
This episode is packed with truth, strategy, and permission to sell in a way that feels powerful and real. Let's get into it.
Intro: I am Christina Koki, your post of the Effortless Closing Podcast. Born and raised in Silicon Valley. Now bringing the wisdom, wit, and well-oiled business strategies from my new hometown just outside of Nashville, where the pace is slower, but the revenue still runs high. [00:01:00] With over two decades building businesses, some wildly successful others, gloriously messy.
Every step has been fueled by a love of real strategy and real results. This isn't about side gigs, and it's definitely not about hustle culture. This is about optimization and building revenue, generating machines designed to make your life and your business feel effortless. After $92 million in sales of the last eight years while raising four little ones and building it all.
Wholepreneur. I've created systems that scale and a business that supports my life, not steals from it. From summers in Europe to road trips across the United States, being present with my family is the greatest win. And everything I've learned to make that possible is now inside the effortless closing method.
The framework behind this podcast, and here's the best part, you can build the same kind of business, the kind that funds your lifestyle, honors your values, and. Feels like you. This show is for the [00:02:00] woman who's already doing well, but is ready to simplify the work, amplify her income, and finally build a business that flows with her life.
Every episode brings sharp strategy, honest insights, and real world tools to help you grow your business and enjoy your life in the process. We don't just grow your business, we optimize it to feel effortless. This is the Effortless Closing podcast.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Welcome, Christine.
Christine Corocoran: Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. I'm so excited that you're here. I'm gonna tell everyone, so you are actually coming in from Australia, which is awesome.
So welcome, welcome. Tell us a little bit about your journey to get to where you are now and what you do for your clients.
Christine Corocoran: Absolutely. So it's actually perfect because I just recently hit my eighth birthday in business and I did some reflection actually over the last eight years, and it's been so phenomenal to, I, I, I'm not sure whether you do this as well, but I think it's so, so important as a woman in business, as [00:03:00] anyone in business, to take the time to really reflect on their business journey, whether it's every six months, whether it's every year, we so much happens.
So much happens in such a short period of time, and we don't take the time to stop and acknowledge how far you've come. You often feel like you are just a newbie all the time. So I feel like this is constantly changes, but if you just stop and take a moment to reflect. And so I was reflecting the other day of the last eight years and how far I've come and I, I left corporate, so I was in corporate for six and a half years.
Was actually in sales and business development before I started my business. And back then in corporate it was, we were very much taught to give strategy and there was no such thing even talked about when it came to mindset. And I found that a lot of the people that I was working with, the business owners that we were helping, I would give some the strategy and they would run with it and do really well.
And then I'd give the same strategy to someone else. And back then it was a lot of the same strategy, but uh, you know, I would give the same strategy and some people would just wouldn't succeed with it. And I would really get frustrated with it because I thought it was me. [00:04:00] I was like, am I not delivering the information correctly?
Uh, am I not giving them everything they need to do to implement it? And what I came back to, I was like, well, maybe it's my communication. So I went and studied human behavior. I went and studied communication styles and starting to understand how I can be better at what I was doing in corporate. And through that discovered neuroscience and coaching.
Back then it wasn't even a thing that was really talked about here in Australia. I did not know it was a job that you could do and, and back then it really wasn't like you, there was no, you wouldn't jump, jump on a job site and be like, you can be a coach. Like it just didn't exist other in the sport world.
And I started implementing what I was learning in the corporate world. My clients started to succeed. And I was like, yes, this is amazing. This is the missing piece. And the corporate company, were like, what are you doing? There's something that you're doing that's working. What are you doing? And so I explained, and they were like, we love this.
Can you teach all the other people how to do this? And so I started teaching them and they started seeing great results and they wanted to implement even more. But as you probably know, [00:05:00] from corporate, it's very slow. It's very slow. And I am such a fast mover. And so I was like, I actually just wanna work with women.
I only just wanna work with women in business and I wanna, uh, spread my wings. I wanna be able to see if I can do this myself. I love business and I love supporting other people in business. And so I stepped out of the corporate world and I had like, led other businesses before and managed other businesses, but it's never been my financial backing.
Yeah. And so then I stepped outta corporate into my job. Sorry, into my business and have been doing it ever since for the last eight years. And I started first specializing mainly in mindset because I was a little bit burnt out from corporate, I won't lie. And I started just focusing really on the mindset side of things.
And then it eventually evolved into helping people with their sales and starting to get really confident with their sales strategy. And then it was business in general. And so now I really focus in the high ticket space because it is a really unique space. And I'm a big believer of high ticket offers because it really helps to serve a client in a really high level.
And they then get great results and then people are really happy. [00:06:00] And it also serves the growth of someone's business because if they're able to charge high ticket, they're less likely to be stressed about money, they're less likely to be stressing about. I have to bring on so many clients. Whereas if you sell high ticket, you can really build a really good reoccurring revenue on in a regular basis quite quickly.
And so I love being able to helps women in business now to support both sides. So the high ticket sales element. But also their confidence in business. So their confidence in themselves, their confidence in business, their confidence in money, so that they way they can create a real profitable, sustainable business doing what they love.
Because I just hate, hate, hate seeing people give up on their business and go back to a job that they hate. It's just my gripe. And so I want to do everything I possibly can to stop being from doing that because it's often the business side or the sales side that they're really stuck with. It's preventing them from making good money in their business.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. I love that story. And it's like, I came from corporate too a long time ago, so like I completely understand and I saw high ticket too, and I help with high ticket. So we got a lot of cool stuff in common. And like I've said [00:07:00] in many of my other podcasts, when I have other guests, very similar.
It's like. There I'm in abundance, like there's so many people out there, right? I'm not afraid to talk to Christina and be like, Hey, how do you do it? What do you do? And have that conversation because her high ticket and the way she does it is gonna be different than the way I do it. And we're all different in our own way and we peel to our own people.
So don't be afraid of finding friends who are very similar in what you do. 'cause you're gonna learn stuff too. And I know this conversation's gonna be awesome. I'm curious, w with what you teach and what you do, what is your level of high ticket? Like, what price point are you typically helping your clients get to?
Christine Corocoran: Yeah, so I sit between like the one K to the 20 5K basically. Okay. Uh, they're the type of women that I just love working with. They're usually in that middle space of, you know, they've been in business for a good year or two at least. And they're starting to like get a bit of traction and I wanna skyrocket them to hit 10 K months.
But then I also have a mastermind that helps women who are wanting to do multi six figures. So.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Okay, cool. So it's like, and that's great because that's kind [00:08:00] of like where a lot of women are getting stuck. And then I love that we're gonna talk about mindset. We're gonna talk about some of this other stuff because in high ticket, so I sell really, really high ticket.
So I have two companies that I run and a lot of people who follow me and listen know that I have one. And then I have this one, actually I have a third one that I do is, what am I speaking? But the first one I do, it's really, really high ticket. And when I sell it, I have to sell myself to get that. And then I have to sell the thing to get that.
Basically it's a commission and I have to sell the thing to get the commission. And sometimes I'm playing with $120,000. And so you have to be able to convince somebody you're worth every penny when they're sitting here going, that's a lot of money. Like, are you worth it? Are you gonna get it? And I have to show them, prove it.
And so high ticket I love because if you do it right and you have the confidence and you step in there and you show your value. They, you're, they're, they're already sold. Like, you don't have to sit there being like, you know, here's what I have to do. Here's all the, the features I have. [00:09:00] You're just saying, here's a transformation.
Right? Yeah. So, so share a little bit with us about the path that usually if someone, let's say someone has a $1,000 product. Do you help them go up in price or are you just helping refine what they have?
Christine Corocoran: Well, it depends, depends on the type of business that they have, but usually what I'm trying to find is a unique offer that's gonna help them really serve their client in a high level.
So yes, usually if they're around a thousand dollars mark, we're gonna have a price increase. Like, yeah, usually that's not like the place where I really wanna sit because that is going to only get someone, their client, get someone a specific result, and it's not really gonna be a huge transformation.
There's only so much that you can do with a thousand dollar offer. So it really just depends what, what the type of service that they're actually offering. So mainly in the service based space, but what type of offer they're, they're, uh, promoting. And ideally we want to get it to a point where we've created a really unique framework that they're, uh, specific in the way that they deliver a certain result.
And it's a high level result that people really wanna pay for. [00:10:00] Yeah. Yeah. And I a hundred percent agree with you when it comes to the high ticket selling side, like it's selling yourself as well as then selling the offer. A hundred percent. And I feel like in different stages there are different evolutions.
Like, if you don't mind me sharing, I find like there's this elevation of like the beginning when you're starting to like create your high ticket offer. Getting really clear on the value of the offer that you deliver is much more, is easier, I feel like, rather than trying to sell yourself. Because I feel like sometimes if you're trying to sell yourself in that first piece, you can often tie your self-worth to your offer and to your service.
And that's where it becomes really tricky because that's why we, we can often get stuck in the head space of, I have to keep proving myself that I'm valuable. And that can lead to burnout so fast. And so we ideally wanna separate ourselves and our own self-worth from the offer because the offer that you're selling is valuable.
Yes, you may be the one that delivers the, the offer, that's okay. Uh, but that value on its own is, uh, transformational. And [00:11:00] the person is buying the offer. They're buying the transformation for themselves. They're not buying you. And so I think that, I always like to make that differentiation. And in the early stages, I feel like if we're able to uncover the offer's value based on the customer's point of view, rather than your point of view, it's much easier to get behind selling it.
And then you can sell it, and then you get the confidence, right? And then you get the results. And that then helps build your confidence in yourself and what you can deliver like. When I was creating my group programs where I've, I've gone through so many evolutions of group programs. Yeah. It's been crazy.
Right? Yeah. I'm sure you have as well. Yeah. And I, I feel like the, my sales program that I have now is so solidified because of the fact that I was like, I'm gonna get super clear on my framework and I'm going to deliver that framework until I get multiple results that I can back it and believe that it's an incredible offer because I need to have that confidence in it to sell it.
It's not just about me, it's about them being able to implement it. Right. Because as a coach, I can only promise 50% of the results really, at the end of the day. Right? Yeah. Because they [00:12:00] still have to take the action and it's their business. They have to back it. And so I can give them the confidence to a certain extent, but they still have to take the action.
And so I'm a big believer of like selling the offer first and then going through with like building your confidence in yourself and what you can back. And so now. Because of the iteration of my program and because I've had so many clients go through it, I now can believe and promise that I can help people hit 10 K months with that specific offer.
Right? And I think that when you get to that stage and you've had enough clients go through it, you're allowing yourself to be like, yes, I can a hundred percent believe that that's possible to achieve that. And then you can start to develop your own level of, uh, bold positioning to allow yourself to be seen as the go-to in that space.
And I feel like that can sometimes, that's been my evolution, and I see that with a lot of clients. I'm not sure if that's been the same with you. Everyone goes through something different. But I feel like that element of like, let's not see you as the person that is always the one you're selling. You're selling an offer that's separate to you, and you can often get behind that first, and then you [00:13:00] can build your belief in yourself and your confidence in yourself.
Christina Kokologiannakis: No, that's such a huge point because you also have to plan to, like, I, I teach how to build empire, so it's like, don't just settle. I mean, whatever is enough for you is enough for you. So everyone's a little different on that. And so whatever you feel your empire is, is, but at the end of the day, you wanna build something you can step away from.
Right? And I'm all about that. So I'm teaching my clients how to do monthly reoccurring revenue, how to build different rooms, how to build a pay to play. These different things combine. But the whole point is you should be able to step back, be making a lot of money, and enjoy yourself. And if you are tying yourself to your offer and you're tying it to what you do and who you are, and you're so tied together, you can't step back.
You can't step out. And it's always you. And the funny thing is, I have done so much in my different businesses where I'm like, okay, how can I make it run without me? Like, how can I do this so I don't have to be there? How can I travel to Europe all summer? And it was so funny. My husband came home today.
He literally was like. [00:14:00] I think we're gonna go to Europe next summer. And I was like, 'cause we were supposed to go this summer, but we moved so we couldn't. And I'm like, okay. And then my daughter's like, can we do Spain and Italy for two weeks? And I was like, sure. And then we'll go meet my, you know, we meet dad in in, in, in Greece where he wants to be.
So like having that opportunity to do that, you want that. And so that's why I love it when you're like, when you're creating something, it's not just you, it's create an offer that works. And you said something in the beginning where you're a fast mover and I am a fast mover, and I find the people who are really successful are not afraid of that change of that fear of, I call it fear of failure.
Right? You gotta fail forward to be successful. Yeah. I was talking to someone and she was like, there's no way you've only been in this space for 18 months, which, uh, as a, as an online type coach. Yes. I've only been here 18 months. But I'm like, I've been an entrepreneur for 20 years. And she's like, yeah, you talk like that.
Like the, like, you know? [00:15:00] And I'm like, but I was not successful in anything I did until about nine years ago. I failed. I created company after company after company, and I failed. And some of 'em, like now, I don't know if Australia has this, but the state has to have it out there too. The authentication codes, when you use your email or you use your ATM card or whatever, it gives you a text code.
My husband and I created a company called Off Logic about 16 years ago or so. We were trying to do that and we went to VCs, we were trying to get funding, and they're like, that's stupid. Nobody's gonna want it. Dah, dah, dah. And we ran outta money but couldn't patent it. We had a half patent going and we had no more money.
So it's, it's funny what I learned. Throughout the time of failure before I actually succeeded. And I feel like too many of the women in this, we're gonna get into imposter syndrome and mindset and all this other stuff. It's really easy to be struggling and then not be able to move forward because you're like, it's, I can't do what I'm struggling.
I'm hitting a wall. [00:16:00] But if I stopped, I would never be where I am. Right? Yeah. Hundred percent. And it, it changes everything. But I changed so quick that I'm like, when I started here in the online space, I was like, Nope, that doesn't work. No, that's not landing. Nope. Change this. Nope. I don't like this. And I kept refining and I've gotten to a point now where it's like, I love what I do.
I love every part of it. Yeah. I'm having fun with it. Sorry guys. Let's talk a little bit about, let's start with mindset. I think mindset's a big one because I know for me, I struggled a lot with it. What do you see with your clients coming in with the mindset?
Christine Corocoran: Where do you even start? Oh my gosh.
There's like 50 million things when it comes to mindset and everyone comes in with something really unique. But there's definitely some patterns that I see across the board with female entrepreneurs for sure. One of the beautiful things that you just even highlighted, uh, as well as you were talking about your experience is that you didn't dwell, like you learn to adapt fast and you didn't dwell on the failures.
And I think that that's a huge, huge mindset strength, right? That we don't get stuck in it and make it mean anything about us. You were looking at like what didn't work, what worked, [00:17:00] what didn't work. Like that is an incredible mindset strength to like adapt and just to keep moving forward and stop looking at the past to be like, oh, that didn't work for me.
And so, so many different mindset blocks. Oh my gosh. So I do work a lot in the sales mindset space and a lot of the imposter and a lot of the money mindset stuff. So it really just depends on what's coming up for them. So sometimes it's it's sales mindset where they're like. Uh, I feel icky, salesy, or sleazy when it is I'm selling or I'm taking money away from people, or I shouldn't have to sell myself as a real funny one.
You're in business. Yes, you do. And I shouldn't have to, uh, and even like. Having conscious awareness around, like conversations around money, like avoiding money or avoiding sales altogether. It's a really interesting one in like the creative spaces where they send proposals or emails and expect that to do the sales process for them and then worry why they don't have any money.
And that's because you're not actually selling, you're just presenting an offer and running. Uh, and so there's a lot of mindset stuff with imposter syndrome around not being the expert, feeling like they're a fraud, not feeling good enough. [00:18:00] Uh, and that can then play into money as well, where they feel like if they have money mindset blocks around, they're feeling like they're not able to charge what they want to charge.
Mm-hmm. Or they feel like money is dirty or filthy or they have really negative con uh, associations with money. They feel like rich people are evil people or greedy people. Yes. And so they don't wanna be like those people. Uh, women often have a one around like, oh, I've gotta be grateful for what I've got and I shouldn't want more.
Or they. They often say things like, oh, it's all that I need. That's all that I need, really. And I'm like, but what do you want? Yeah. It's really fascinating. That's one thing that I always see, always pay attention to is like, whenever they use the word need, I'm like, what even is need? Same thing like with enough like, oh, I've got enough.
Enough for what? Like what is even enough? Yeah. And like anytime they use the word need, I'm like, that's okay. I understand that that's what you have and that's what you need, but what would, what do you really want? And I think a lot of women have a real struggle around it, and it's our conditioning for sure.
In society. We [00:19:00] have this fear around like wanting more but also have this conditioning around it's not okay for us to want more. And I love that you shared like going to Europe and, and allowing you to have so much money to be able to step away from your business. Like I love that. And so I wish more women had that determination and had that belief system because men have it.
Yes. Right? Like,
Christina Kokologiannakis: yeah,
Christine Corocoran: why don't we have it?
Christina Kokologiannakis: It's crazy because, and, and I, I can't, I did a podcast episode on this and I can't remember which one it was. I talked about how men, they're just like, oh, they're kind of cocky. It's like, oh, I could do this, whatever, da da, da. But as a woman does this, I have been called so many names because I'm very strong, I'm very bold and it cracks me up.
Like when we go to restaurants, I'm the one paying it just how it is. But they always give my husband the check, and I'm like, why are you giving him the check? Like, I think it's so funny. They're always like, oh, here. And then he literally just hands it right back to me. Like, he's like, here it is. 'cause I'm always paying and I'm really strong and I'm really bold.
But that turns a lot of people off sometimes. [00:20:00] 'cause they're like, oh, she's a woman and I dress really pretty and stuff. So I, you know, they, they see me and then all of a sudden I start talking, they're like, whoa. Like, like, who is this? Like, she knows what she's talking about. She's, you know, articulating stuff like all these things, but.
We get called these names. Right? You know the, the B word's a big one. And oh, you know, she doesn't know her place. Oh, her ego's big. Oh. Like all this stuff and it drives me bonkers. 'cause I'm like, if a man walked in a room and a man did that, a man would be patted on the back. Oh, look at you. Oh good. When a woman does it though it, a lot of women look at them weird.
Yeah. And look at them weird. And it's like one of those things where that causes imposter syndrome a lot. Like I had to work with my husband because when I started making a lot more money than him and I was doing more than him, it gave him like he's okay with it. But gave him a little pause and he was like, for a minute there he was like, oh, your ego's getting too big.
And I was like, what? Like, excuse me, my ego's too big. And he's like, yeah. I'm like, well, in this business, [00:21:00] if I don't have confidence in what I do, I won't be successful. So I can check my ego and then I won't make the money. Or I can make the money. What do you want? And he is like, oh, I want you to make money.
Yeah. Is it
Christine Corocoran: ego? Or is it confidence?
Christina Kokologiannakis: See, I think it is confidence. I don't think it's ego. I really don't because I'm not rude. I listen to a lot of people. I don't think I know everything actually. I know I don't know a lot of things, so like I can't imagine it's ego. I think it's more confidence. Like I'll walk into a room and I'll know, like I'll just start having a conversation where my husband's a little more passive.
He likes to just kind of sit back. He likes to kind of read the room where I just full steam into it and I'm just like, hello, hi everybody. You know? But I want women to like have freedom of that and not stress about all that. And not care about what people say. And I know Amy Porterfield, I talk about her a lot because I'm kind of in that world and I hear her a lot.
She talks about how for so long she was so afraid to just be herself because of what people would say and think about her. And then now she's like, I'm tired of all that. [00:22:00] I just wanna be myself. And it's like when you build something, you can't be apologetic for yourself. Right? I mean, I'm not someone who swears a lot.
I'm not someone who's aggressive. Like I'm aggressive in sales, but I'm not mean aggressive. Like, if you wanna buy my product, I'm gonna ask you a lot of questions. Like, okay, why aren't you buying it? What's, what is holding you back? Like I'll get that kind of aggressive, but I'll never be like, you need to buy this.
Why aren't you buying it? You're being stupid by it. Like that to me is wrong. Yeah.
?: But, but
Christina Kokologiannakis: too many women are holding everything back 'cause they're so afraid. And that I'm, I'm gonna ask you, is that mindset or is that imposter syndrome or is that both?
Christine Corocoran: Well, imposter syndrome is a form of mindset. It's a belief system.
Mm-hmm. So it is fear-based thought patterns that show up when we're stepping outside of our comfort zone. So when we're doing something we've never done before, imposter syndrome shows up for us to step back in our comfort zone and stay safe. Okay. And that's real. Like, that's actually conditioning. So we have a lot of conditioning around what it means to be a woman.
And there's a little bit of misogyny in there, a little bit probably as well. And, and really [00:23:00] acknowledging like what our belief systems and how those belief systems have been developed about what is okay for a woman to do and what's not okay for a woman to do.
?: Okay. Right.
Christine Corocoran: And so it's like what? And, and men have this as well.
Like they have a perception of what it's, what it means to be a woman. And then when a woman steps outside of that mold, it's like, well, hang on a minute. And then we get labeled, right? Yeah. And so it's the same thing with men. So it, it would've activated an element of his need for it to be the provider when you paid, right?
Yeah. So there's an element there of like, that is deep conditioning for men to be the provider. It's part of their evolution, right? They were the cavemen, they were the ones that went out and hunted. So they still had that deeply ingrained in them. And so then when a woman is doing that, there's an element of emasculation, which really, like, they can get over like a hundred percent.
And we can evolve. It's okay. It's just acknowledging like, okay, but why do I think that? And do I want to continue to think that Just acknowledging it and starting to go bring to the table of like, is that gonna serve me here? Is it useful for me to think that? And with women, like we absolutely [00:24:00] need to question that because is it like one of the biggest things that I see hold women back in, in business?
Is it a not forthcoming and sharing people of what, how they're valuable, the impact that they've had, the results they create, the people that they work with, like the level of expertise that they have and the. Accolades that they've achieved. Like, it so blows my mind that the amount of times that I go to networking events and I travel to America as well.
So I spend a lot of time in America and I love how Americans really are forthcoming with their level of value and how they can add value to a room. And I freaking love that and I wanting to bring that more to Australia. 'cause we have a little bit of the tall poppy syndrome here and that does impact us in the way that we are uncomfortable stepping outside the norm and being seen to be too big for our britches.
Right? And so. For the fear of like being torn down. And so there is that conditioning that we need to question, because the biggest thing that's most likely holding you back is that you're not being yourself, you're not forthcoming and communicating clearly, and you're not putting yourself out there with the confidence that you really need to, to cut through [00:25:00] the noise for people to be like, I truly wanna work with this person because she's unapologetic in who she is and how she helps people and the impact that she can have.
And that's what people are really craving right now, that level of certainty in order for them to spend money, like they're looking for that level of authenticity and, and certainty. And if you don't have that, then you are, you've been conditioned and you haven't worked on your mindset element to understand why you're holding yourself back and how that's showing up for you, then that could be the one thing that's preventing your success.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. I love that. And it's, it's so big because this is like when I, when I help people and I'm really coaching with them. I heard, so there was one of my clients, she came to me and she was like, oh, I do a four week live program. I, I teach it live for four weeks. I'm like, oh, that's really cool. Okay.
How much do you charge? $297? I was, yes. Okay,
Christine Corocoran: but
Christina Kokologiannakis: what
Christine Corocoran: industry? Okay. I was what industry? She,
Christina Kokologiannakis: It was she did she was a chiropractor, so she did like, it was like health, right? Like physical health. And she teaches on like this whole course. [00:26:00] And I literally sat there going, are you joking? Like you're live, you're spending your time.
Like, wow. And so when we got down into it, she goes, I would never pay for a course that's worth more. So why would I charge it? And I thought that was, and that goes back to the money que the money perception. Right? And I was like, girl, oh my gosh. Right? And so when we get to high ticket, we have to understand that if we aren't confident spending 30,000, 40,000, a hundred thousand, which I have spent on coaching, if you're not okay spending it.
How are you okay selling it? That's the other problem. Right? Because
Christine Corocoran: the other way, the other way that I look at this actually is it's actually got nothing to do with your bank account. Your pricing, your pricing has nothing to do with that A at all. Yeah. And so acknowledging like, and a lot of people do set their pricing based on what they think that they can afford and what they would spend on it.
But the thing is, the reason why you wouldn't spend that money on it is because you have the qualification. You have the skillset, and you [00:27:00] don't have the problem that you are willing to pay to solve. And so we need to step outside of ourselves when we're setting our pricing to really understand how we're pricing ourselves for the right market.
But we're also pricing, understanding the value of the transformation that we're delivering in the customer's eyes, not our eyes. And so I dive a lot, a lot about that into my programs because it's one of the things that helps you shift outside of. The perception that you are delivering the service. We need to see the service as a separate transformational offer that your clients will pay more money for.
Because they truly want to either solve that problem or they want to experience that desire. So if we get really clear and understand our clients like the amount of times, like I have clients that come to me and they're like, oh, my client's a multi-millionaire, why would they wanna work with me? And like, 'cause you're a CFO and you really need to work, they really need a CFO in their business.
Like just because you understand your, your numbers and because it's easy for you, they really will, might struggle with it and they really need your help. So we need to start to see, understand the [00:28:00] perception of our pricing from our customer's point of view, not from ours. 'cause that's worse likely where you are underpricing for sure.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. And it's, and it's all about like when you look at that, a lot of it comes down to, I tell people, okay, how do you wanna run your business then? Right? Like, once we work past the mindset, everything, it's like, do you wanna do volume based? 'cause I don't sell volume based. So if you wanna do volume-based.
You can do volume, you can have a ton of clients come in. You could just be running this treadmill and that's it. Yeah. Or like you and I, right. We do the high ticket. So if you do the high ticket, you set it up right. And you, like, for me, I'm, I'm building an ecosystem. But when you're creating the ecosystem and people are in it, right, and you're selling high ticket.
You don't need hundreds of thousands of people every year to come in. You have your same handful of maybe like 10,000 or maybe even less to start like, like the way I'm running it, even a thousand people, makes me a lot of money doing what I'm doing because they're all hitting different points. There's different rooms they're in and there's different ways that they can advance themselves with different [00:29:00] coaching, and that is building an ecosystem for one person to come in.
They go rave about it, the other right. People come in and it grows that way versus this constant launching. So this is a question I wanna ask with your clients, are you teaching them to go out and do big launches or have you gotten away from big launches? What are you teaching right now?
Christine Corocoran: I, I actually really like launching, to be honest, for myself, for my own business, I actually enjoy it.
Okay. It's not something like, it's taken, I mean, when I first used to do it, it was very emotionally exhausting, but then I did the mindset work around it, and so then it's not, and, and my, it's not exhausting anymore. Uh, and so I really enjoy the live launching because I do love speaking. So I love running live challenges and live programs and things like that.
So I do have some clients that do come to me because they see that I do that and they want to obviously work through the mindset blocks, but also launch, uh, successfully. But I don't necessarily teach that I don't have one specific strategy that I teach absolutely everyone in my program. I'm, I'm very personalized and the way that I do my, my sales.
And so I [00:30:00] really look at the uniqueness of the business owner and I look at their strengths with their visibility strengths, and then I look at their id your, their ideal client of like, how does their ideal client wanna be interacted with and served? Okay. And so we look at different ways to support their growth for their business because it really depends on, because, you know, I could teach them launch, but then they may not do it.
And like, I wanna make sure that they're going to do something that they want to do. And so we could build out a unique sales strategy that really aligns to who they are as a person, rather than going just teaching what I do, because that's not always gonna work for other businesses. And so, and I have such a wide variety of clients that'll come to me all in service space, but a really wide variety of clients.
And so they're not always going to be. Like myself that's super confident online and, uh, loves live launching. Like that's not always the case. So I like to build out more of a sustainable business model as well. That it's not just relying on, if you're going to launch, that's great, but you shouldn't be just relying on that as a income stream because you'll get into the full rollercoaster.
And it can be exhausting for sure if you're [00:31:00] stressing and then you're putting off when people can pay you. Like that also is, is a real problem for business too. Right? Right. If you are going, oh no, no, we don't start for another six months. You have to, you can't pay me until six months later. Like, that's also not working.
So we really want to think about how we're building reoccurring revenue into our business. 'cause that's where we take, where we experience so much more freedom, but take away the financial stress.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. And if they're not live launching, what are some of the other tactics that you're using to get people in?
Christine Corocoran: Oh, so building out more of their middle funnel. So really building into like how we are serving people with lower ticket offers to actually build value so that people see them as the go-to person. And so it might be like behind the scenes funnels with maybe Facebook ads to lead magnets, then to other lower ticket offers that then develop that.
Then they could go into an evergreen funnel with webinars, or it could be in-person stuff. So in-person events I love as well. Uh, and even like demonstrations, workshops, email funnels, like it really just depends on the business. There's so many different ways that we could go and I just look at like the unique ideal client that you're working with.
[00:32:00] How are we attracting them? How are we nurturing them and how are we then converting?
Christina Kokologiannakis: Are a lot of people in Australia doing live events? Do you see that a lot out there?
Christine Corocoran: There's more and more now, to be honest. Okay. I think since COVID I think people are craving a lot more in person. Yeah. And I think the AI is definitely driving to the more authenticity and in, in-person experience.
So there's definitely been more pop up I think this year and it's getting bigger and bigger, so, yeah. And I imagine it's probably the same for America. I keep seeing more and more events I wanna attend. Yeah.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. America has a lot. I know Europe like I did a four event speaking tour in Europe two summers ago and it was rare.
They were like, this is weird, we don't really get these. Like, this is cool. And it was small, so it was like 30 to 50 people. Wow. It was really intimate. They can ask their questions. But they love that. So I don't always see it everywhere. That's why I like to ask. But in the states we see a lot like you can have different things.
What I like to do, and what I'm gonna be moving a lot of my stuff to is yeah, you could do these big, big ones and I've gone to the big, big ones. I have friends who are making like $2 million a month and they throw these big huge [00:33:00] 10,000 person conference things that they do or whatever. And I feel like those are getting a little old too.
Like people want that. Like we talked about that in person, that that feeling of connection. And so I kind of wanna do like the micro ones and get back to doing the 30 or 40 really like detail, like people who wanna come for a specific topic and they come for two days, right? Or three days come to a really cool place and it's not just learning, but it's more of a health retreat, right?
Mm-hmm. You're coming into a little yoga, you like get a little bit healthy, you learn some stuff, but then you're also learning about your business and your growth. 'cause I'm all about having a healthy mind and body to have success in the business because that affects everything too. And so I know all of that is changing, and I think what you're doing is really cool.
Christine Corocoran: Yeah. And I feel like that, that you just, exactly as you mentioned, that connection piece is really massive. And so there is a way to do that and weave that into more events. But you're right, people are so done with those mass scale events where it's just pitch fest. Yes. And there's just speakers [00:34:00] that actually aren't delivering value, that has gone completely out the window.
People are so done with it and they're exhausted by that pitch fest. And so I think that, you know, what's evolved in the sales space over the last few years is really stepping away from, you know, I dunno if you remember that old marketing adage that was like, give people the why and the what, but don't give them the how.
Yes. And like, well actually, if you are still doing that, you're most likely not converting. Yeah. 'cause people are like, oh, you are not willing to actually give me any win. You're not willing to show me the level of value that you can deliver. Yeah. And so I'm just gonna go somewhere else that'll, that someone will give me that before they ask me to pay for something.
Right. Yeah. And so with this, especially now with ai, there's so much access to information now. Mm-hmm. So fast. That used to be like, oh, I'm gonna buy a course that will allow me to then give me the step-by-step process, but now AI can do that in three seconds rather than a 50 min, 50 videos that I'm gonna spend seven years trying to download.
And so that informa, this really shifting the information agents. So that connection [00:35:00] piece is where people are like really craving that, so mm-hmm. Even the level of like, support so we can have access to the information. And I think that's where like a lot of my messaging is shifting a lot at the moment is like mm-hmm.
They can, it's not about the information. People don't buy the information. They're buying the transformation and they wanna understand how you're gonna get them the transformation. And so I'm really leaning into my messaging, really highlighting the support level and how it's helping you create momentum.
How it's stopping you from getting stuck in the overthinking. Like all of the mindset stuff that keeps you, preventing you from taking action is where the transformation actually happens. And so it's not about the information. So even if anyone's listening, if, if your marketing strategy is to really focus on this as well, I'm gonna teach you, that's actually where you're going wrong.
People don't wanna learn. They want the outcome. So how can we then re really speak to the transformation you're gonna create rather than just focus on information.
Christina Kokologiannakis: It is so true. And it's weird because like, I've only kind of been in this world for 18 months and I've seen all these shifts and it's like, we used to be like, oh, do these big events [00:36:00] where people wanna come for three days.
And now people are like, I don't really wanna go to these events for three days. Like, I don't mind them. I, I do them occasion, but like, you don't get to ask questions. You don't get like break, some do breakout sessions, but like you don't really get to interact and be like, what did you think? How did that go?
What happens? Like we don't have that community, it's just big groups piling in, piling out, and we're losing a lot of it. And it's the same thing when it comes to online and your launches, right? Like, and this is why I was asking about the launches because a lot of launches now, so many people are. They've been like, if you're selling to coaches and you're selling to course creators, you're selling 'em this.
They know the jam of, let me give you a little tidbit and then I'm gonna sell at the end. So a lot of times they come into these things or they don't even show up 'cause they're like, oh, they're just gonna sell me. Right? Yeah. And I had one of my friends, she was so funny, she was like, well, I signed up for this, a masterclass and I was really excited 'cause they're talking about something I've never heard of before and I was really curious.
And I go, okay, what was it? She goes, well, that's the thing. I showed up, I sat [00:37:00] there for my 30 minutes and it was exactly what I teach, but they called it a fancy name. And then I was just like, turned off by it. And I go, this is where that authentic part is. Don't be clever. Like, like people ask me, why do you call it pay to play?
Why didn't you create a fancy name? Why do you just call it rooms when it's just a tier? Like, like why can't you create something fancier? And I go, it's not about the names. I'm telling you exactly what it is. So, and I tell people the pay to play is not the same as what people think it is because it's a different model.
But it's like I could get fancy with names or I could just call it what it is, teach what it is. Yeah. And then you're gonna trust me better because you're gonna say, oh, she didn't put this fancy name. So when I show up and learn about it, I'm wondering like, oh, I already knew that. Instead it's like, this is what it is.
Let me explain to you how I'm doing it.
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Christine Corocoran: Yeah. And we went through a phase, like it was probably like three, four years ago, where everyone started using really fluffy language. Yes. Like really like especially in the coaching space, where it was like, it's gonna touch your soul.
And like all of these, like randomly, like I can't [00:41:00] even think of them right now because I don't even sit in that world anymore. But like there was so much fluffy language that people would like, oh, I'm a. I like even the titles that they would give themselves, you're like, I don't even know what the hell you do.
I've got no clue what you do. It sounds fancy but I've got no clue. Which then also doesn't create much interest.
?: No.
Christine Corocoran: And though, so then people just scroll along and so that has gone out the window as well where we are really looking for people who are gonna speak to the specific result. They're gonna speak to the solution and they're gonna tell you, this is the problem that I help you solve.
It needs to be so clear now and so direct because of the massive amounts of information that we are digesting at the moment. When someone hits enter on chat, pt, it pumps out all that info. I don't know about you, but I'm reading like a quarter of it. Like I'm not even reading the whole thing that it pumps out.
'cause I'm like, even though the beginning and the end, I don't read it like because there's so much information. And so if your messaging is so fluffy and even your title is so fluffy and it doesn't speak to your ideal client, your ideal client does not know what you do, you will find it very hard to convert, [00:42:00] very hard to even get leads because people will just go and find someone that's clearer.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Well, what's funny, so, I was just interviewing someone else and we were talking about having our, like the landing page in your websites and how long should it be and what should you have on it? And the funny thing is we as humans are getting shorter and shorter attention spans. Right. And so it's like how much is too little and how much is too much?
Yeah. And if you have so much fluff in there, like I know Russell Brunson, he probably has changing now, but he said the more you put the better, like, you know, you can rephrase it, rephrase it, and have it just like a, a long running sales page. I can't even digest those anymore. Like, I literally see those and I'm like, all I wanna know is, can you do what I need you to do?
Yeah. And if I have to read all this content, I I can't do it. Yeah.
Christine Corocoran: And the hard thing with it though is that when we're selling with a sales page, we're speaking to different personality types, so some people and diff different buying decisions as well. So it's, I'm a big believer of still having a lengthy sales page at [00:43:00] this point.
It might change. Mm-hmm. But like, I'm still a big believer of having a lengthy sales page if it's effective for your ideal client, because different people are gonna look for different things and so what you might scroll past, someone else would stop and look at. Yeah. So, so, and the thing is too, like with different personality styles, some people will be like, I wanna know exactly what you're gonna give me.
What's included K cool or white? Others are like, no, actually I wanna know how you do it. Tell me a little bit more about the process. And then others will be like, well actually, who's in the community? I would love to know who's in the community. Who else do you work with? Right? And so people will look at different things.
Interesting. And so that's why sales page does need to have a certain amount of information. Plus it's not only speaking to that, but it's actually helping people move through a decision making process. So if we're not guiding people every step of the way with the decision making process, then you're most likely not converting.
Like the other day, I was working on a client sales page and the way that like it wasn't converting at all, or it was to a certain extent, but like not great. And we looked at it and I was like, the reason why is because you're actually not, not even speaking to any objections, you're not overcoming [00:44:00] any objections.
You're not in inviting people into each stage. You're not supporting them with any emotional resistance that could be coming up at the different point when then you share the investment side. So. If we are not understanding the sales process, like there's, there's a reason why we have certain things that are different parts of the sales page.
And so hers was like all over the shop. So I had to like rejig it all, uh, and then add so much more to it because when someone is interested, it's very different. If someone's just like randomly scrolling, but they're not truly interested in your service, then it might along sales page might be like whatever.
Exhausting. Yeah. But for someone who is truly interested in taking the time to really think about an investment, especially a high ticket, they're taking the time to look at the things that are important to them. And if they scroll past other parts, no big deal, right? Because they're still going back to that sales page multiple times to really see like, okay, is this really gonna be the solution to my problem?
Is this the person that I really wanna learn from? How do I, how can I trust that this person will give you the results? Yeah. Is it gonna work for me? Is this really the right fit? Do I need that? Is it essential that I spend the money [00:45:00] right now? Like they're having all of those questions run through their mind when they're thinking about making that investment.
And if your sales page doesn't touch on a bunch of those things, then you could be missing the mark for people.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Okay. So you actually help your clients go through their sales page as well then?
Christine Corocoran: Yeah, we look at everything. So look at everything from their messaging on social media, their positioning, their pricing, right through to their, uh, email sequences, their, their sales strategy of like how we are guiding from the, from the lead to the nurture to the convert.
Uh, how we're the sales pages, even post-sales, the upsells, the downsells. Like we're looking at everything because I really wanna build out like a similar word. I'm not sure if you're using the same way, but like the ecosystem of like how people are coming and finding you, but then also what's happening after the sale.
Yeah,
Christina Kokologiannakis: yeah, yeah. So like it's, and that's an ecosystem as well. And my ecosystem is more of like, they're in your, in the world. They're in like a special program where they can't touch anything else. Until they're in it. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's, it's actually, it's an exclusive society called the House of Cortes.
A And so once they're in it, [00:46:00] which is my pay to play model, you have to pay to get access to me. Once you pay to get access, then you can get my coaching. But instead of just I'm being on a sales page saying, I don't know, do I need this one? Do I need this one? Because I know you offer different things. I offer different things, right?
Like I can consult as a consultant or an advisor on a company or a tech company. I do that often. I can help you craft from A to B, like A to Z on this. Like, I can do so much for you, but what do you need? And so instead of a sales page, they come in and I actually help them as an advisory as part of their pay to play and say, where are you?
Where are you struggling? What coaching do you need Right this minute? To get you going. And then I can build out a strategy where they do coaching along their journey for what they need when they need it, which is completely different than a just let you pick. 'cause a lot of people will hodgepodge a lot of coaching together.
And this is something for a lot of listeners to understand. It's like, how do you wanna curate something [00:47:00] where they are going to stay with you, right? Mm-hmm. And a lot of people will say, well, that journey, this is the pay to play. Most people talk about is you do a low ticket, get them started, and they wanna play now because they've experienced you.
And then they're gonna go possibly to the next level. But in high ticket, at least I've seen this, you can tell me if what you've seen, if you do a $27 or a $97 low ticket thing to get someone interested, but you're selling a $25,000 course, that's a big jump. Big gap. It's a big gap. And so I don't talk about it like that way because I'm like, okay, just because somebody.
Paid to do a little, like, you know, a little like training with me, or I gave them this little, this little uh, workbook or something for a lower price. They or might not be the audience that I want, who's gonna come pay me my $50,000 for the program I have. Yeah. They just, it's, it's such a job and you gotta consider that.
Christine Corocoran: Yeah, you've absolutely gotta consider that because the person who would spend the 20 5K actually would look at the $50 offer and be like, nah, that's not gonna be [00:48:00] worth what it is that I need. So they're not even gonna buy it anyway. So we've definitely gotta consider like that evolution of, of the customer, of like, what do they need?
What are they looking for? What problems are they experiencing? What desires are they wanting just before or like in their interest of wanting to work on that next level because they will often have a bit of a taster. So, I'm finding at the moment though, what I'm finding is that that middle funnel piece is really important and the people who have missed the middle funnel for a long time, because there was a stage in like from 2020 to 20 to 2023 that people were a little bit more.
Open with spending money without necessarily considering the full consequence. What's the word? Like they weren't really like as discerning as they are right now. And so previously, because the people have been burnt in the past where they bought the high ticket and then they didn't get what it is that they were promised, or the they bought in for proximity or for energy and then they got in and, and the vibes were not great vibes.
Yeah. Or they, you know, I've had bad [00:49:00] experiences and this can happen in the coaching industry and so I've
Christina Kokologiannakis: had it myself. So I've experienced, I've paid a lot of money to get into rooms and I meet a lot of money. People are like, you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. I'm like, yes. And then you get in there and you're like, well, I don't get a refund.
This sucks. Like, it's horrible. Right. You know, and you think it's something great and it's not. They oversold you.
Christine Corocoran: Yeah. And or you get in there, there's absolutely zero structure. Yeah. There's no way to actually help you help the transformation. It's like, well you, what questions do you have? And I'll answer the questions, but you're like, well, I don't even know what, you know, like, so there's so much that has shifted and I think people are so done with that, that they're actually like, well actually I wanna know whether you actually are gonna give you the result that you're promising.
So I wanna get an experience for what it is that you do first. So those, those middle funnel pieces are important. And if your con, if your conversion is taking a really long time for customer from first cold to like be interested to then get warm to then buy. If that's like a really long conversion time, it's most likely 'cause you've got nothing in the middle that actually supports the nurture to then buy high ticket.
And so we want to [00:50:00] consider that now, that could be so many different things. So I don't even really get into that, but like, it is, can be so many different things depending on the business. So I, we really need to start to consider as well, like I was talking to someone else, the other, the other day who's multi multimillionaire and.
What she has noticed is that for so long, her business model has been working really beautifully from webinar to conversion, webinar to conversion, webinar to conversion, and it's just not working anymore. And one of the things we identified was there was two things. One, she's not sharing a certain level of authenticity online to develop a high level of connection with her ideal client.
For them to be like, I truly wanna work with you because you're the expert.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yep.
Christine Corocoran: Right? And she's been in business for 20 years, so like doing this thing, doing what she does. And so I was like, that's a level of like, people are really looking for that because I really wanna know you as a human before I then invest.
So there's that side. Secondly, she doesn't have any other form of long form content that helps her develop that level of connection and expertise.
?: Okay. [00:51:00]
Christine Corocoran: She was using mainly like focusing on, uh, social media content. Mm-hmm. Which is short form. Yeah. And then driving to then webinars. Right. Which previously worked a bomb, like amazing for the coaching industry for so long.
Not
Christina Kokologiannakis: anymore. Not anymore. Not anymore. It's so oversaturated and I tell people your, your and I, to be honest, I hate social media. I just hate it. Right. And so, but I know I have to be there. But it's like, that's your breadcrumbs, that's how you kind of get people around. And then your long form content is what builds that credibility, builds that trust.
And I tell people, try to have your face, try to be seen, try to be there because they're gonna relate with you. And some people take longer. But I've had people reach out to me who are like. Oh my God. Like someone sent me your stuff and I've been, I did. I just like binged you and I'm like, binged it. Yeah.
Right. And I'm like, that's so, it's so weird for me to hear someone say that about me. 'cause I'm like, why would you binge there's the imposter syndrome, right? Because I'm like, why would you binge me? Like, what, what is it? But people are like, I love your stuff. And I had I, I'm gonna ask you in a minute 'cause I wanna ask you about if [00:52:00] you do uh, introduction calls or like sales calls or any of that.
But I did a sales call with somebody and she was like, I've binged all your content. I love it. I'm ready to go. I am getting paid at the end of the month and I'm doing this. And I didn't even sell her, but she wanted that call just to make sure. Yeah, I was gonna give her that transformation, right? Yes, yes.
And I do this all the time instead of, instead of just, because originally when I first started I was like, oh, I'm just gonna get all these people to like buy, and I got a lot of people to buy, but they're the wrong people. And then they started coming into the courses and they're like, oh, I need help with this.
Or I got a lot of people on payment plans and they're like, oh, I can't pay. I literally just had a conversation with somebody where she's like, well, no, I finished the course so I'm not gonna pay anymore. I'm like, no, no. That's not how payment plans work. It works like it's not how it works. And so I had to have this long conversation like, you need to keep paying, you owe, you owe like $3,000 more.
I'm like, you still have to keep paying. And so I realized that I'm getting the wrong people in. So by doing [00:53:00] these calls, one, I can make sure they're the right people. And two, when they're coming in, they're so excited already that I'm not getting people on payment plans, I'm not getting people doing this other stuff.
They're in it and they wanna do it. So are you advising your clients to do the sales calls or what are you kind of doing around that? Everyone's different.
Christine Corocoran: So it really just depends. So I teach how to do an effective sales call, so I actually teach the process of a sales call so then people can feel really confident, and I teach it in a real feminine way.
So it's not bro marketing tactics and old sales tactics. It's like pressure and fear and shame. That was real. I was taught for such a long time and it's so horrendous that I just horrible so anti that. Yeah. So, I teach a really unique sales process that helps support people to have the decision but also hold space for someone so that to not get caught up in your own head or scarcity, worrying about whether they're gonna say yes or no, you're truly diagnosing whether they, they are the right client, your offer is the right fit and nurturing that conversation.
And so some people yes, are totally like open to doing sales calls. I feel like it's one of the things if you don't offer the opportunity,
?: okay, [00:54:00] then
Christine Corocoran: sometimes that can cause a bit of skepticism of like, if I'm not even done if like for some people really want that call that if you don't just literally blankly don't offer it at all.
It's like. That's weird. Why would you not offer a call and why can't I speak to someone about this? It's, it's just creating like this dodgy scam energy, right? Yeah. So we wanna be conscious of like, yes, you may wanna offer it, but you don't have to. You always sell on a sales call. So that's always the case too.
So I, I do it for my one-on-ones absolutely. Because I wanna a hundred percent believe that they're the right client and I wanna have a conversation with them. And then I do an application process for one of my masterminds, so then I can get to know them. I, I usually will voice note them on dms and so, and chat with 'em in dms first to really ensure that they are the right fit too.
So there's still a level of personalization. I still offer an opportunity for a right fit call, uh, for some people who really want that. Other people are like, like you just said, they've binged all your content. They love everything you're putting out. They're like, I'm sold. So they don't necessarily need a sales call.
They're happy to jump on a sales page and then purchase through a sales page. That's great. I do the same thing, have live challenges and webinars and [00:55:00] people buy through a sales page and they don't necessarily need the sales call, which is great. But for my hire, hire ticket offers, yes, I offer a right fit call.
For my own peace of mind. And then also I wanna make sure it's the right group of people. So if I ever have someone, 'cause some people again, don't always read the full sales page. No. So that's a bit of a challenge too, because if it's like they don't have a full understanding of what is expected of them, especially with one of my masterminds.
But if I, if they just buying in to get access to me, and I'm like, but if you are not willing to be a part of a community and support and give and encourage and share your expertise in that community, then you're actually not the right fit for a mastermind. So there's definitely elements there. So I, yes, I run sales calls.
Yes, I teach people sales calls, but it's not always part of the strategy depending on the business.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. 'cause I hear a lot of other high ticket coaches and they're like, some will say, oh, you have to do sales call only sales call. Other people will say, oh, don't do any sales call. You can sell it without doing it.
And I'm like, I think everything really works, to be honest. Everything works. [00:56:00] It doesn't matter if it's high ticket, low ticket, you just have to, the value of what you're doing changes in the price, but at the end of the day, it's like, what's right to you, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I don't mind the sales call, but I have to check myself because a lot of times they'll, they're supposed to be 30 minutes.
A lot of times I keep it to 15 or 20, but sometimes I get a good person and we're just chatting it up and I blow a whole hour and I'm like, oh crap, I lost a whole hour. Like that's, that's like a lot of time. But for me on the sales call, especially for the much higher price products that I do. I like that, like it kind of gives me that peace of mind and then the person can just ask whatever questions they want and make sure it's right.
But going back to everyone being burned, I mean, I'm in groups where I hear so many horror stories where they buy stuff, they do stuff right. And it's like I feel bad for them and I, I've had it myself and it's like, you try your best to protect and unfortunately there's so many bad people out there who just wanna get people in and then they don't wanna do anything.
So, you know, is there something you teach? 'cause like there's [00:57:00] some stuff I teach at my clients about how to set this up so people don't get that feeling. Do you do anything like that with your clients as well?
Christine Corocoran: So what happens post buy is really important for sure. So usually people get into a, there's like a mindset element of like once someone's hit purchase, if what happens after they've purchased and the money is taken from their bank account.
If what happens then doesn't. Create an affirmation that they're like, this was the right decision for me. Then that can create buyer's remorse. So you really wanna think about your follow up process, post purchase, and how you're then onboarding them. The onboarding piece is really, really key for them to feel fully nurtured and supported to make sure they're getting the most out of your offer.
So there's that. And I think um, not really sure if what's, this is what you're asking, but when you, when people have been burnt in the past, it can happen sometimes, depending on your evolution in business or your willingness to do your own due diligence.
?: Yeah,
Christine Corocoran: so I, one of my first coaching programs that I invested in, it was okay.
It was, [00:58:00] it was like, whatever. It wasn't a lot of money. I think it was like $1,500. It wasn't a lot of money. It felt like a lot of money for me. For the first, one of my first investments, yes, it felt like a lot of money, but I, and it was like, I think it was eight weeks and I think it was very long. I think it was eight weeks and, and I look back on it now, I was like, God, that was basic.
It was so basic. And I was like, I can't believe I invested in that. But going back to it, it was what gave me the identity and mindset shift that I needed to move forward. So when I think about like, was it overly amazing? Did it have absolutely everything that I needed? No. Yeah. But it gave me what I needed at that time.
And so sometimes you need to be conscious of like. What you think you're going to get out of it may not be what you actually get out of it. And that was also okay. So it support sometimes will support you to move forward even in different ways. Like I, I'll go with my sales program, I have people go through that again and again and again.
And why I love that is because like the first time they might dive into all the content and start implementing all what they learn and then the next time they go through it would be like really big mindset shifts. 'cause they're starting to like have [00:59:00] experiences in their business where they're making more money and then they have all the money mindset blocks come up and then they have all these other challenges that show up that actually supports them to really work on their mindset.
So it's really interesting how I have different evolutions go through with it and what people get out of it each time. But if you've been burned in the past, hopefully you will have learn the lesson to do your due diligence to look at what is the refund process and have a conversation with the person.
That's where people, like the amount of times that people have conversations with me that are like, I really wanna know what I'm gonna get out of this. And sometimes that's a red flag as a coach because we wanna be conscious of like. You are the one that's gonna create the results, but I'll give you the structure and I'll, and I'll teach you what to do.
Yeah. Yes. But you still have to take the action. So I'm not taking that out of your hands. Like you have to still do that. But it's often when I'm like, okay, what's happened? What's happened to you in the past? What didn't you like? What do you, uh, expect? Or what do you truly need moving forward? And I can then absolutely, transparently and honestly say what you're going to get and what you're not gonna get from my program.
And one of the biggest things you can do as a seller, as someone in in business, is selling something. [01:00:00] Be conscious when your mindset goes to, I've gotta please or appease versus communicate effectively. Because that's where you could go wrong. If you are on a sales call and you're like, yes. Saying yes, yes, yes, yes, you can do all of this.
And yes, yes, yes, yes. I've done this before in the past. If that's not fully true. And that's an evolution that we can go through as women sometimes if we're in a natural pa, if we've been taught how to people please in our childhood and we want to please people and we want 'em to convert, if you go and say you do something, but you don't actually do it or you can't guarantee it, you can still honestly communicate what you can do and what you can't do transparently and that be okay for a customer to still invest.
Like I said to someone the other day. They're looking at joining my sales program, and that's very much for people who are sitting around like the 4K, 5K, six K kind of months, and they're wanting to hit 10 K. If they are brand new in business, like I'm talking, six weeks have no paying clients, right? If they're that green.
This is not the program for you because it is a sales program. And [01:01:00] at that point in business, you need marketing, you need leads first, before you need conversion, right? Yes, yes. You need to learn the skill of sales a hundred percent. But for this program to get you to the 10 K months, my sweet spot is if you are sitting between the 4K to eight K mark and you wanna hit 10 k, a hundred percent, I can guarantee that's, that's possible.
Now, a client of mine, I was talking, I was talking to her the other day and she said to me, oh, I've only been in business six months is this the right program for me? And I said to her, have you got paying clients? And she's like, yes, I've got paying clients. Uh, I'm just not sure if my pricing is right.
My offer is right, and I'm not really sure. I'm, I'm really not confident on sales calls and I'm really not confident on what a hell has to be on my sales page. Like all of that. And she's like, and I a hundred percent know I've got money blocks. And I was like, okay. And I was like, great. I said to her, if you're that early stage, and I should have asked a question instead of saying this, but I, it makes sense when I say it.
But like I said to her, I don't think I could guarantee that in the four months you work with me that you'll hit 10 K because you are early stage. Uh, but I could probably help you hit five KA month. Is that [01:02:00] cool? And she's like, oh, I've already hit 5K. And I was like, oh, well then I possibly can. Yes, absolutely.
Get you to 10 K, right? Yeah,
Christina Kokologiannakis: yeah, yeah. So
Christine Corocoran: you can be transparent and communicate what you can do and what you can't do without just pleasing. And I think that that's where you've gotta get better in, in sales, that if you are just trying to please or appease someone on a sales call, that's not a sales call.
No, that's a presentation call. Uh, and secondly that if you have been burn in the past due d due diligence, like if, like I invested in a program last year, I think it was like 20 5K, but plus travel to the estate. So it was a lot more and. I had worked with this person in the past, so I knew the level of like delivery that they could have and the level of support, the people that they track.
So like I knew I believed in the investment, but there was one else, another one that I looked at before I invested in that. And she has an incredible profile and I love her, everything that she puts out. But when I looked at her sales page and she was only offering in a 12 month mastermind, a one 30 minute call with her, and she was not [01:03:00] offering sales calls.
Yeah. I was like, Hmm, what are you gonna get? Yeah, yeah. What am I gonna get? And the clar, there was no clarity on the sales page of actually what structure was. There was nothing like what we're gonna go through in 12 months is a really long time. It's a long time. Yeah. So I was like, I'm not really sure whether, like, I'm not sure if I just want a, is this just handholding?
Is this just answering questions randomly or is this actually gonna give me structure for my to scale to the next level? Right. So that was unanswered questions that I could have asked on a sales call, but she wasn't offering a sales call and she wasn't overcoming that objection on the sales page. So it's like where you need to have either both or you need to make sure that you are, and like what I love about sales calls too is it actually helps you uncover what their objections are that you can then update the sales page with.
?: Yes, yes. And you can use in your
Christine Corocoran: content. So they're really beneficial for your business. You don't have to be doing them all the time, but there's definitely ways that you can build in that to at least overcome the skepticism.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. It's like you can, like I offer it, like you don't, you don't have to [01:04:00] take it like you can just buy.
Right. But it's like, I rather if you are unsure or you just, because it's funny when they get on this, I always laugh 'cause I record all of mine and then my, when I had a big team, I kind of like downsized a little bit to make it more, you know, efficient. But when I had the team, they would go through it and they're like, this is really funny.
We're watching this sales call and they're literally just asking, are they gonna work? Like, is it like they're not even, they don't even have objections. Yeah. There's no objections. There's no question they're already ready. But they're just like the question they ask us. Will it work for me? Like that's all they wanna ask.
They, they wanna have, they wanna chat a little bit, tell your story. And then the only question they really ask is, will it work for me? And then I come back, of course with a few more questions because I'm really big on like, if it doesn't work, I'm gonna tell you. And I tell people that. I'm like, on a sales call, I will tell you if you are not right, you are not right.
And that's okay. If I think of something better that you might get more benefit from, I'll let you know. If I don't know, I don't know, but I tell people, so I'll ask a few questions to make sure, but that's all they ask. [01:05:00] It's not an objection on pri. Sometimes I get the price one. No, that's really, don't have the money.
That's different's.
Christine Corocoran: Yeah, that's more the emotional resistance phase. Okay. So they're sitting in that emotional resistance of like, I can't fully believe that this offer will give me what it is that I need. And, and everyone has that. But what about me? My uniqueness, yes, my situation is really different. I wanna know this will work for me.
And so. That's not a judgment, that's literally what the brain, the brain does. It's like, oh, but it may have worked for these other people, but I don't know if it whether works for me. And so that could be a belief in, you know, how you're communicating the people that it really works for. Mm-hmm. So how you can create a relatability for the ideal client to be like, oh, if it worked for her, it worked for me.
Yeah. But there's always gonna be that, like it's one of those, and it's always gonna be like that. Not, it's not, you are right. It's not an objection, but it is that emotional resistance phase of like how we can support them through that emotional resistance phase to support the decision because they need to back their own decisions.
But a lot of the time people are jumping on those calls to be like, help me make the decision. [01:06:00] Can you help me make it? Right?
Christina Kokologiannakis: So my husband gets so mad at me like, okay, so it's like me going to a restaurant and we go to like a new restaurant or something and I'll look at the menu and I'll be like, oh, like three or four things look really good.
And then I go to the server and I'm like. Oh, what's your favorite thing? And my husband's like,
?: same.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Like, who cares what their favorite thing is? Pick what you want. And then the, usually the server tells me something and I'll be like, oh, and I picked something else. He is like, why did you ask that? And I go, I dunno.
Like I, I dunno. I'm like, I just wanted to hear what they liked and then if it sounded good, I might pick it because they liked it. But then if I didn't like it, I'm not gonna pick it. Like it's that, that psychology, that's that brain where we're just, we just need to have that little bit of that server to say, oh, these cool things are, these are good.
Yeah. It's the confirmation. Yeah. And in this world where there's so much going on, so many people out there, it is so hard to tell. And I love the fact that you said, you know, you were able to like look at the sales page and you were like, wait, it's missing some stuff. Like it didn't quite do it. And I think we need to have more [01:07:00] education around that.
Right, so that when we have like our clients going out for other things and they're trying to buy, or they're selling to be aware of what's on their sales page, because we don't wanna create that, right? We wanna make sure that it's very clear. Like I always tell my clients, you have to have very clear wording, make sure that understand what they're gonna get.
You don't have to give a ton of features. Like the way I do it is I give the benefits, the transformation, the journey. Where are you gonna be, what are you gonna be when you're, when you're done? And then when they get to the checkout page, that's where I give the features. So it's not overwhelming on the page, but on the checkout page where you get your price.
Then I say, Hey, I give a little sub. Like, it's like a, a short little paragraph of like, what it is, the transformation again, here's the feature. So like maybe it has a whole bunch of, like, I do a lot of Slack access. So like maybe you get three months of one-to-one Slack access where you can ask me anything you want for three months.
Anytime a day I respond. But I'll list that out and I'll say that and I'll say, Hey, we have these coaching calls, we have this, we have that. And then that way they can [01:08:00] check and say, okay, I already know that it's gonna give me this transformation. I already know that it's gonna turn me into this person that I wanna be.
It's gonna give me what I want, but am I gonna get the things in it that I need? Because I feel like that's the other part of it. It's like I can, I read these transformations and I see 'em and I'm like, okay, this is really cool. Like I wanna be that. But then when I look at it, I go, but I want, if I'm paying like a lot of money, I want you.
Yeah. Like I want you as my coach.
Christine Corocoran: We go through the different parts of, that's part of the decision making process because before we go to the emotional resistance piece, it's the logical side. Yeah. So it's like, well, gimme the facts of like, what's included? What do I get? And then if all of that meets our needs, then we go to, okay, is this gonna be the right fit for me?
Yeah. Is this essential for me right now? And then they sit in a little bit of the emotional resistance. And if that's overcome with a, with testimonials, if it's overcome with you communicating really clearly what it is and what it isn't, it helps. Like that's why we have, this is for you if, and this is not for you if, because it helps with that emotional resistance piece.
So, and the confirmation. So there's [01:09:00] absolutely the structure of the sales pages that they're there for a reason. It's not just because we like to talk a lot about our offer, it's actually because it's helping the decision making process move through to the next phase.
Christina Kokologiannakis: And a lot of it's the psychology. A lot of it is how, you know, the conditioning, like, you know, I'm sorry, my brain is like trying to work here.
Pre-framing and like sitting there, you know, and, and telling 'em the story and how they're gonna move through and the journey and all of that makes such a difference because if you don't put that in your copy and you don't put that on your sales page and they're not understanding it, they can't envision what they can become.
And a lot of that is lacking too in today's world and how we do a lot of that. So I definitely agree with you. But as we're coming to the hour, I wanna wrap up a little bit. We talked about so many cool things. This is such an amazing conversation. You have this really cool book. I want you to talk a little bit about your book.
Christine Corocoran: So the book has just come out in May, 2025. And it went bestseller, which was super exciting, very shocking to me. Like I was like not expecting that at all. Uh, and I have an incredible community here in Australia that really [01:10:00] supported the launch of it, which was really amazing. And the book is called Turn Imposter Syndrome Into Your Superpower.
And it came about because I used to get really frustrated with hearing women especially talk about how they couldn't do certain things because they had imposter syndrome. So they were like, oh, I really would like to do that, but I don't have, I have imposter syndrome, so I can't do that. Of like, oh yeah, I could, but no I can't because you don't understand.
I have imposter syndrome. And the way they would talk about it would be like. Well, it's like a third leg or it's like mm-hmm. Something that they have an affiliation with. It's like they, like a disease. Like they literally had a disease and it was incurable. And I used to be like, no, that's just your mindset.
Like, that's actually not a thing. Like everyone keeps talking about how it's like, oh no, no, it's this thing that I, I have and I can't get over. And so I would start teaching, I was actually teaching master classes on how to overcome imposter syndrome. And as I was doing that, I was like, it felt wronged because I was like, every single time we step into a new evolution of our business, every time we step outside of our comfort zone, we experience imposter syndrome.
It shows up when we're [01:11:00] stepping outside of our comfort zone and doing something we've never done before. It shows up in the way that, like, who do you think you are? You people are gonna find out you're a fraud. Uh, you're not an expert. You can't talk on that. But that's a normal part of our process when we're doing something new, right?
We're stepping back into the beginner's shoes and doing something new. And if we've signed up for a great life, we've signed up for entrepreneurship, you are gonna experience imposter syndrome again and again and again. Talking about overcoming it is actually a false preface because you cannot overcome imposter syndrome.
It's not like it ever goes away. It's not like you overcome it once and then all of a sudden you no longer have it. No, it's not the case. You're gonna experience it. It's a psychological phenomenon and that you experience it again and again. So we need the tools to, to actually embrace it, to understand it, to understand how to navigate it when it does show up.
So it stops us. So it doesn't stop us from, from taking the next step or to do the things that we are scared of doing, right? Because those things can actually grow and expand you, and you've gotta do the things that scare you. And if you are stuck in the imposter syndrome and not moving [01:12:00] forward, then you're always going to have the same results.
And so I started talking more about it of like, well, actually, if you flip the script on imposter syndrome, and you started to think about how. What if you actually looked for it? What if you found opportunities that induce the imposter syndrome that you knew would scare you, that would activate the imposter syndrome to make you feel like you're not enough or to make you feel like you are, you are not the expert.
But if you did that thing, I guarantee you that would expand your business. It would grow you beyond your, your imagination, and it would support you to have an extraordinary life. And so I started teaching on how to actually use it as a tool for growth. And so I wrote a book about it and I absolutely love it.
And people have. Like even high achievers, it's so far funny. 'cause like often high achievers are like, oh, I don't have imposter syndrome. Oh no. I was like, yeah you do. You still do, but it's very sneaky. So it might not be using the same language. So it might be like, oh, I'm not, I don't, it doesn't necessarily use the language like, I'm not good enough.
But there'll be certain [01:13:00] behaviors that you're doing that are preventing you from doing the thing that you're scared of doing. And so if we start to really look for opportunities to be, like, if you next week, if I asked you, what's one thing that you could do next week that would induce imposter syndrome?
I guarantee you you could find something that would scare you. And you know that that would actually grow you. So I went through a whole year last year when I was writing the book where I was actively looking for things to induce the imposters in room to test out the tools that I was sharing in the book.
And so I went again and again and again to put myself out there. And I challenged myself to show up in really unique ways. And I got myself into rooms that I did not believe that I belonged. And I reached out to people to create relationships with and to uh, you know, ask to be on the podcast that I would never, like, I was like, why would they ever wanna come on my podcast?
Yes. Like all of the, all the impostor syndrome would come up. Yeah. And so I challenged myself again and again, and then I put everything that I learned in the book. And yeah, the feedback has been really phenomenal and I'm so excited to have it out into the world because I just wanna change the whole narrative on imposter syndrome.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. And [01:14:00] it's so true. 'cause as you become more accomplished, mine is a sneaky way of like. Oh, I have something else to do. Oh, I'm busy. Oh, what if I do this? And it's like, just get your butt in the chair and get your, and get your wait list going, or whatever it is. Like, because it's, I get the little voice in my head.
It's not really like, I'm not good enough. It's like, well, you know what? If it doesn't work or I, like, I hear other little voices that come in and, and a lot of times it's when I grew up, you know, even though my parents did the best they could with everything, like, you know, they were good parents. They were always like, oh, why can't you be like your sister?
Right? My sister would get like a 4.5 GPA special in high school. I barely got like a 3.2, a 3.3. Like I was not a good student. I didn't care. And it was hard. And so I get these little voices. It's like, oh, but someone's better than me. Like, why? Why would they wanna talk to me? Why would this, and I have to tell myself, no.
No, just like don't listen to it. Yeah. And I'll just be like, no, keep going, keep going. And you're right. I reached out to someone who is huge, like huge, huge. I'm hoping he'll come on my podcast. [01:15:00] I didn't think he was gonna even respond to me. And he totally had a whole conversation with me and he was like, oh my God.
He's like, actually, it's funny you mentioned that because somebody else sent me your podcast. And I was like, really save? And he was like, I love what you talk about. And I was like, oh. And he's like, I wanna come. I'm just, I'm gonna remind him. 'cause I think you probably forgot to fill out the application.
But I was like, okay, cool. But I was so, I was so afraid. I'm like, okay, worst case scenario, who's gonna say no? Who cares? I have to like talk myself up to do it. And that's, yeah, that's like the hardest thing. Yeah. So I'm glad you wrote this book. It'll help a lot of people. 'cause I know a lot of women out there are struggling at all different levels.
Where can they find your book?
Christine Corocoran: The easiest and fastest is Amazon. Okay. So yeah, wherever you are in the world, you can just find it on Amazon. Super easy. You can either search my name or search the title of the book.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Awesome, and I'll, I'm gonna put the links in the notes as well so people can find it.
And then if they're interested in working with you or binging some more of your content, where can they find you?
Christine Corocoran: So I also have [01:16:00] a podcast called The Next Level Life, so you can binge all the stuff about sales and mindset there. Uh, otherwise I spend most of my time hanging out on Instagram or TikTok, so feel free to find me there.
It's just my name and then underscore coach.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Awesome. I'll put all that in the, in the show notes as well. Christine, thank you so much for joining me today. I had such a fun conversation. It was, it was a lot of great stuff. I hope listeners out there got some great insight on what they can do and then start looking forward to the future on how they can change it, incorporate the high ticket sales, and find more success in everything that they're doing.
Amazing. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, thank you again.
