Intro: [00:00:00] I am Christina Koki, your post of the Effortless Closing Podcast. Born and raised in Silicon Valley. Now bringing the wisdom, wit, and well-oiled business strategies from my new hometown just outside of Nashville, where the pace is slower, but the revenue still runs high. With over two decades building businesses, some wildly successful others, gloriously messy.
Every step has been fueled by a love of real strategy and real results. This isn't about side gigs, and it's definitely not about hustle culture. This is about optimization and building revenue, generating machines designed to make your life and your business feel effortless. After $92 million in sales of the last eight years while raising four little ones and building it all.
Wholepreneur. I've created systems that scale and a business that supports my life, not steals from it. From summers in Europe to road trips across the United States, being present with my family is the [00:01:00] greatest win. And everything I've learned to make that possible is now inside the effortless closing method.
The framework behind this podcast, and here's the best part, you can build the same kind of business, the kind that funds your lifestyle, honors your values, and. Feels like you. This show is for the woman who's already doing well, but is ready to simplify the work, amplify her income, and finally build a business that flows with her life.
Every episode brings sharp strategy, honest insights, and real world tools to help you grow your business and enjoy your life in the process. We don't just grow your business, we optimize it to feel effortless. This is the Effortless Closing podcast.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Today we're cutting through the noise and getting real about something. Most entrepreneurs screw up how to actually use Kajabi to grow your business instead of drowning in tech overwhelm.
My guest is Susie Hines. She's a strategist and tech badass behind elevating expertise. She helps coaches, consultants, and [00:02:00] course creators stop guessing, get their messaging crystal clear and build Kajabi sites that don't just look good, they actually convert. if you've ever felt like you're piecing together duct tape systems chasing hacks and wasting hours, figuring out tech that's supposed to make your life easier, Susie is here to fix that. Let's dive in. Hi, Susie. Welcome.
Susie Hines: Hi.
Thank you.
Christina Kokologiannakis: All right. I wanna hear your story.
Tell us a little bit about the journey that got you to where you are, and then you can tell us a little bit about what you do.
Susie Hines: Okay, sure.
It all started really when I had my babies, and I think this is common for a lot of us, a lot of women in particular. I was working an office job and then just having kids made my family was much more of a priority.
So I started working just on the side as a virtual assistant, kind of picking up some side gigs. Eventually I discovered Kajabi and I got really focused [00:03:00] in on that. And so for a while I was just being kind of an implementer like my. My clients would hire me to do something, but I would just do whatever they asked me to do.
And I realized after a while I could tell which clients were going to be more successful and which weren't, but I wasn't at that point able to identify really why, or, you know, more importantly give them strategic advice on what they could do differently. So that was when I started kind of really digging into more of the strategy behind things and so that I could, could give them that strategic advice.
And then I already had the tech know-how and the design skills to implement that strategy.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. Okay. So it's just kind of started with the kids and then it just went from virtual assistant to [00:04:00] doing stuff to all of a sudden now realizing a pattern, seeing something and saying, okay, wait, I'm noticing something in my clients and I'm seeing maybe, so was it more of like you're seeing how you could help them with the strategy behind it, like fix the problems, right.
Is that what you were seeing, that some people were implementing, some were not? Or what was the problem that you started noticing?
Susie Hines: Yeah,
so
really what happened, it was this one, it was one month I had two clients. They were both launching memberships and I did basically the exact same thing for both of them.
They each ran a webinar, they each had a sales page, they had an email sequence. I did the same things for both of them. And one was, she was really successful and the other, it was like kind of a bust. That was, that was like, that was illuminating for me. I kinda stepped back and I was like, I did the same thing and I could tell I knew [00:05:00] in advance, you know, this one, this one has a lot of potential.
This one I'm not so sure about. Uh, but I'm doing the same thing for both of these clients. So that it was really easy for me to look at them and kind of compare and contrast like what, what it was, what those difference makers were. So then, yeah, I mean there's a lot to it, but really it was, it was a lot about, it was one laying the right foundation in advance, which is something that one of the business, one of my clients had done.
And it's something really that I can't do that doesn't come from your Kajabi consultants, that that's gonna come from the business owner. So that was, that was something that she did. And she also was really, she was responsive to what her audience wanted, and she was focused on the, the outcome, like the transformation that [00:06:00] these people were looking for.
And I think that, you know, so she was able to take that and package it into a, a really juicy, compelling offer. And then she had the right foundation in place. So, I've become a lot better since then at making sure that those pieces are in place because you can, yeah, you can pay me to set up a sales page for you or a webinar registration, but I don't at this point, you know, I don't want those jobs and it's not, if, if they're not gonna be successful, then I'm not successful. Yeah. Even if I've created the same product, even if I've made the same amount of money, it doesn't matter.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah.
So you, you realize that it's more to it than just a sales page and that's why we're here, right? Like, it, it's, and this is something when I was launching a lot and when I was doing it all, it's like people would be like, oh, I'll, I'll build a sales page for you.
And I had spent a lot of money on a sales page and it still [00:07:00] didn't convert. And then someone's like, oh, you need a copywriter. It's your, it's your, it's your copy. So then I paid a lot of money for a copywriter and then I was like spending all this money when I first got into the world of online, right?
Because I've been coaching for a long time, just offline. And I was like, yeah, I'm throwing more money. I'm gonna throw more money. And I kind of realized, I'm like. That's not the answer. Like, that's just a lot of money going out the window. So you saw this, so you said the one who was successful laid the foundation.
They were responsive to what the audience wanted, and they were really clear and honed in on the transformation. That's really cool. That's awesome that you got to really see that. So once you started noticing that and you started seeing how you could help your clients more, then what did you start doing with your journey?
Susie Hines: I, I did a lot of just self-learning just listening, paying attention to the, the influencers, the big names out there and, uh, what, you know, what, what resonated for me. Which just like made sense [00:08:00] of what I was seeing, the patterns that I was seeing with my clients and with. Other people who I just know from like Kajabi World who were successful.
And I also, I had a kind of a business partner for a little while who we, we teamed up for some projects and that was really helpful to just get somebody else's perspective. Because as you know, as a solopreneur, you're kind of in your own echo chamber. Yeah. And you're like, is like, is anything I'm doing or saying making any sense?
So just having somebody else to bounce ideas off of and talk things through with was really helpful. Just getting that different perspective was really helpful. So that, and that got me, I mean, that was like a, a big, a big increase that got me from implementing to really understanding the ecosystem around online [00:09:00] businesses.
Both inside of and outside of Kajabi.
Christina Kokologiannakis: That's cool. I love that. And I love, it's about, you know, I tell people all the time, it's like, you know, if you don't wanna spend money. On a coach or mentor, then get somebody get, you know, you gotta have somebody in the world, but they have to understand the world, right?
You can't have somebody who, like, I love my husband to death, but he's in the tech world, right? So when I talk to him about what I'm doing and I say ecosystem, or I say something else, his brain goes to like software and he goes to like tech stuff. 'cause he's a VP of technology. So like he's all into that.
Or ai, if I talk about using ai, he's all about like, you know, coding and other stuff. It's just a different conversation. So I still love chatting with him, but it's super, super hard. And that's why I have kind of built my girls group where like I can like message my girls, I'll Instagram them and I'll be like, I wanna call myself this or I wanna do this.
Like, what do you think? Like, how does it resonate? Right? And I did that the other day with one of my really good friends and she was like, you are like a maverick. You're like so out there [00:10:00] doing this stuff. What you told me is so blah. She's like, it's not you at all. And then helps me because. In my mind I was like, oh, this is it.
Like I got it. And just to hear someone else's perspective, yeah, that changes a lot of stuff. That's really, really cool. I love that. So now you are helping people on Kajabi, and I wanna tell everybody how I found you is I actually have watched your videos and I have implemented a lot of what you have taught on YouTube.
And I have to say, so I use Kajabi, I love Kajabi. And a lot of people will tell me, oh, you should change from Kajabi. And maybe in the future I will when I get bigger, but for right now, I can do everything I need to do. Right inside a Kajabi and it works for me. And I was watching one of your videos because setting up landing pages is probably the hardest thing for me.
I am creative, but I can't do the creative. Like, I like to give it to someone and say, do it, but I'm tired of paying a lot of people a lot of money if I don't wanna like keep a page and I keep changing it. So I was like, I'm just gonna make it. I'm just gonna see what happens, keep it good enough. [00:11:00] And you talked about using Canva, you talked about some other cool tips and it made it just really easy for me to make the page really quick, make it look good.
It's not like amazing. It doesn't look like Amy Porterfield or any of those, but it looks good, right? And when I edit it, I can edit very quickly. Versus before, if you edit in the Kajabi and the editor and you're trying to edit a lot of stuff, the formatting gets me messed up. Words get moved, images get funky.
And the way I did it, which you talked about. Is using Canva and I create everything in Canva and just put it in as images and it made it so simple. So I love it
Susie Hines: that, yeah, that makes me so happy. And I, you know, like I do, my clients are where I make money, but just the YouTube and getting that feedback from people to like fills my bucket, it makes me so happy to, to be able to empower people because Right, that's the thing about Kajabi is that it has all these features and [00:12:00] automations, and yes, you can definitely build an all your entire online business in one platform.
That's great, but it's really hard to figure out. It's a huge learning curve. And so just to be able to empower people to manage their own Kajabi accounts, to make those changes on their own and not be dependent on a consultant every time they wanna. Create, you know, change an image or send an email or anything.
Yeah. That's the whole point of, you know, the YouTube channel. And for people to realize, I think straight outta the box, Kajabi can look really like boxy and clunky, and they don't realize that you can make it really beautiful. Like you can design beautiful pages if you have these, these tricks and tips.
Christina Kokologiannakis: And I love that. And Kajabi, it's like, so when you get into the tech as a course creator, right? So I talked to a lot of course [00:13:00] creators, a lot of coaches, you know, the, you gotta have the tech background, you gotta be able to get this stuff out because if people aren't seeing what you're doing, then what's the point?
Right? And you talked about how, you know, when you were really helping people as the VA and you started learning, you know, what were, they were doing differently. They were laying the foundation right. They're responsive to what you know, people want, like, they're out there listening. But I'm gonna tell people, if you don't have the emails, if you don't have the framework up front, you're not reaching people, you're not doing stuff.
People can't see you. And what I love is you have your YouTube running. And YouTube is one of those great things where if you keep building it and you keep, I, I have to tell people like, you can't just stay consistent because that's great, but that's not gonna grow you. You have to stay consistent, but then you have to do exactly what you said.
You have to look at your audience, how, what they like, right? Get them engaged. Start having a conversation, start making videos towards that, right? Changing it so they're actually getting a transformation. And the cool thing is [00:14:00] when people start getting a transformation just from your videos, look, I watched your videos, I did your videos.
And then I was like, I want you on my podcast. Like, these things lead to a result. And I try to tell my audience the same thing. I'm like. You have to understand the work can't just be, uh, oh, I'm just gonna do whatever and do it. It needs to be do it, refine it, repeat it, keep going and refining because that's when it starts clicking.
So I think that's super, super cool. Alright, so tell us more about what you do with Kajabi and how you, like, what are you helping people with right now?
Susie Hines: I help them, number one, set up the foundations. Just optimize everything in the backend because that's, that's stuff's, it's not that fun and it's also just hard to figure out set up build websites and primarily funnels.
And I feel like
I tend to avoid the word funnels because I think that people get a little bit scared or intimidated. But I [00:15:00] mean, in my mind a funnel is, is just those automations that are happening that you can set up in the backend of Kajabi that make your life easier so that when someone lands on your page or sees your offer, the, the process of signing up or buying all those things just happen.
Like that's what a funnel is. It it, it doesn't have to be massively complicated. So that's what I do is number one, help people with that messaging so that when somebody does, you know, land on their page or read their marketing email, they are able to identify really quickly like, yes, this is for me, or No, it's not.
And then setting up all the tech to make sure that, that that delivery is happening. And also just make it look beautiful because that's, that's the thing that people often are really focused on. And I understand that [00:16:00] you want a, you want a beautiful website, and that's, it's not really, it's not the most important thing.
Like your copy and your messaging is a lot more important, but it's the thing that I think is like the most rewarding to people when they see a beautifully designed landing page or website.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Let's, let's talk about that a little bit because a lot of people have this like illusion that the website has to be spectacular.
It has to be. Like I know when I first started, everyone's like, oh, I wanna copy Amy's website, you know, I wanna copy Jenna's website, I wanna do this, I wanna do that. And, and the funny thing is, what I have found over time is that having this. Website you're copying doesn't fit you. It's not authentic to you.
And yes, you need a pretty website. Like some websites are so clunky and mine is horrible right now. I have a new one like in the backend and I just need to kind of, this is where Kajabi comes in. It's like I need to figure out how to take this website that I had someone build, click it on and make it actually my website.
'cause I haven't [00:17:00] figured that out yet. Right. 'cause I haven't spent any time. It's not hard, but I haven't done it. Right. Yeah. And so, for me it's like I don't need the perfect website and in the beginning I felt like I needed it. So let's talk about why we don't need a perfect website and what really is important when someone's coming to you to make sure that you're actually getting a sale.
to make sure that they're getting the sale. Yep. So the website's actually working for you basically. Okay.
Susie Hines: Right. Unless you are trying to sell your services as a website developer, then it doesn't, it doesn't really matter to your audience what it, what it looks like. I think that what's way more important is the, is the copy, is the messaging.
And this, I mean, in the past, if somebody asked, you know, what should I, what should I invest money in? Yeah. Like a, a logo designer or a copywriter, I would've said a copywriter, you know, a hundred percent. [00:18:00] Now really with ai, it's a lot easier. Uh, if you have your, if, if you have some, some bullet points like your key points, the, the before or who your target audience is, the before state, the desired transformation, you know, the pain points you can have those bullet pointed out.
Then you can have the framework for a sales page and plug it all into your AI of choice and you'll get a, a pretty good, you know, framework for a sales page,
Christina Kokologiannakis: Um, And so that is right because, you know, right now with the copywriters, they are really expensive.
I will, this is where I would put my, my point of view on the copywriting, right? I say don't invest in a copywriter until you are crystal, crystal clear in what you wanna do. You're transformation who you're serving, all of that test out stuff first. Because I feel like a copywriter can come in, uh, chat ai, they're good, but I feel like a [00:19:00] copywriter can come in and kind of clean it up and make it sparkle where.
Where you don't wanna invest is when you are just figuring it out and you're changing. 'cause I change a lot until I figure it out. Like, I mean a lot, it's like every few months I'm changing a word, I'm changing a feeling, I'm changing a flow because it's not, it's not resonating, but something resonates.
Then I'm like, okay, that worked. I'm gonna change something else. 'cause this isn't working. And so I tell people, wait until you really figure out truly what it is. You're getting good sales coming in, you're getting flow going, then you can get that copywriter to come in and tweak it for you. But AI can do so much cool stuff right now.
And just like I have conversations with AI and I call it a he. Yes, it's a he, but like I get a lot of clarity around things and I don't like a lot of times what it will gimme so. If it's like, oh, you should do this and here's how you would put the sales copy. And I'm like, no, I don't like that. But what it does help me a lot with is, because I do a lot of messaging, right, is when I wanna have a [00:20:00] conversation and I want just feedback from somebody that's not gonna put their own like, view into it.
I'll talk with chat and I'll say, let's just kind of chat this out. Figure it out. Yeah. Let me get my brain moving around. And I think that helps. So having a, the copy on the page is super important. And then do you advise them, like if they wanted to start somewhere and they're just getting started, website or sales page.
I mean, they need a sales page to sell. That's what I tell people. But do you think it's important that they focus on also creating a general website as well?
Susie Hines: No. Okay. No. Uh, a website I kind of, the analogy that I use is like your, your website is like an all you can eat buffet. Like you just. It's just a bunch of stuff and somebody can go there and they can choose to eat the chicken or eat the roast beef or whatever.
Yeah. Versus, you know, a funnel, which is like a, a five course meal where you are [00:21:00] taking them through this process. So you are bringing them in and then maybe you have a mini offer or a webinar to watch or whatever it is. There's kind of this, this escalation path to the main course, whatever you're trying to sell.
So you really wanna be guiding that customer journey. And that's what you do with, you know, a sales page. Versus a website, which is, it's a nice, it's nice to have, it gives you kind of a centralized place on the internet, uh, and, and just establishes you as a legitimate. Entity, which is important, but it's not, that's not where you start from.
No. You, because you wanna be capturing leads. You wanna be bringing people in and converting them.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. It's funny 'cause what I notice now from a lot of these really big people is they don't even have, they don't even, they, they might have a homepage, [00:22:00] but you never really go to it. So they'll have like their giveaway and they have a page for the giveaway and it's its own enclosed ecosystem of a page, right?
Yeah. Like you don't have links anywhere else. You're kind of there. They, they have, and this is what we'll talk about, you know, these pages have to have one purpose and only one purpose, right? And so it's like, that's all it is. And then if you wanna learn more about the company or something else, you kind of have to search, you kind of have to do your own thing to try to find it.
And then you're like, okay, is this it? Does that work? Because the whole goal is they just want you to do that one action. Let's say it's get a book or a template or something, they want you to do one thing with it, then it's like, okay, we got you the one thing, now you're in our ecosystem. Now we can do other things with you.
Right. So I feel like people put too much pressure on this home, like a, a, I wanna call it like the website, like a home, you know, landing page because they feel like everybody needs to see them as credible, but there's other ways to make yourself credible, right?
Susie Hines: Yeah. And actually, when I build [00:23:00] a website, the homepage is the last thing that I do.
So I'll build the about page, the lead capture, if you have a, you know, a freebie or lead magnet, the sales page, and then the homepage is kind of where you centralize all these different pieces. So that's, and I think that that just conceptually helps people to understand. What the purpose of a homepage is.
It's just that kinda introduction and then from there you can link out. But a, as far as, uh, I mean, creating content and just getting your voice out there are way more important. People spend so much time, time, money, resources on a website, but who's gonna land on your website, right? You gotta think about that.
Like take two steps backwards and how are people getting there? Yeah. They're going to find your, uh, YouTube channel or they're going [00:24:00] to see that you have been on a, a guest on a podcast or you're speaking at a summit or you are involved in in online groups. Like there's a Kajabi Facebook group that I will hop into and just answer questions, see what people are talking about, what they're struggling with, and I take that content and create YouTube videos out of it.
So that means that I know that somebody's asking this question. I'm not just coming up with content out of out of nowhere. I know that there's alignment between what my audience is asking for and the content that I'm creating. That's way more useful, valuable, and needle moving than building the perfect website.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. And that's, a lot of people will ask me, they're like, how do I find what people need? Like, how do I find what they want? Like I don't understand. And it's like, get in the groups, have the conversation. Right. [00:25:00] I love getting on stage. I love doing, like, I just last week did a training for like 700 people and I love doing it because I'll do the training and then I get all this feedback of questions at the end.
I get a lot of people who jump into my dms, they ask me more questions, but that gives me an idea of where people are, why they're stuck, what's happening. And then I like to bring on people onto my. Podcast or YouTube that talks more about it. Right now I have my live TV show or my live show on YouTube, which is House of Cortes Live, where I bring on people to talk about these conversations, right?
And where people can actually comment and we actually talk about the comments. They can ask questions, and it's a live show where we're kind of a talk show, right? We're really hitting the stuff that we can't always talk about. Or someone who's listening could be like, Susie, that's so cool, but I have a question.
They can't ask the question, right? Because we've already recorded it and they're just listening. So that's what the live is about, to really give people that [00:26:00] engagement. So I absolutely love that. So let's go with a little bit of a question about Kajabi, because not everybody will know what Kajabi is really about.
But give us, give us a straight kind of inside look of what Kajabi is and how it's helping people.
Susie Hines: Yeah, great question because we've had this whole conversation just assuming that people know what Kajabi is, and maybe they don't. Kajabi is an all-in-one online business platform, so you can build in one place, a website, your sales and checkout pages, a digital course, your email marketing, uh, podcast, blog, community, everything.
And they're always adding new features. So the idea is that yes, you can, you can build everything on one platform, pay one fee. Mm-hmm. And you're not, you know, using Zapier to like Frankenstein together, [00:27:00] all these different pieces because that's, I mean, that's the biggest headache for a lot of people getting started.
You're learning. Five different platforms like WordPress, MailChimp like Podio Think Effect. You're learning them all, and then you have to make them talk to each other, and then the tech breaks down and then you're frustrated and it's, and it's not a good use of your time, really. Like, not at all. So the idea of Kajabi is that you can, you only have to use one platform and everything's already integrated, so everything plays nicely together, all these different pieces of your online business.
That being said, I, I think that Kajabi is the simplest way to start your online business. That doesn't mean that it's simple because it is just be, the fact that there are so many features does continue. You're adding complexity and [00:28:00] people often just don't even know where, you know, they're like, what?
What should I do? should I start a newsletter or a community? You know, so that's where like the strategic advice comes in. Yes, you've got tons of different options, but what should you be doing? Right. Which I always, you wanna prioritize making money and capturing leads. Yeah. Right. So like right out of the gate, like, what are you doing to make money?
What are you doing to bring people into your ecosystem? So, yeah, and I'm, I'm all Kajabi. That's the only platform I work on. Uh, I've been doing it for seven years. I've worked with the, uh, Kajabi product development team a little bit. Like on the they just released a Kickstarter plan, which is for those entry level people, because I've reached out.
I just, I found the CEO of Facebook on, or sorry, CEO of Kajabi on Facebook, and I DMed him and I was like, Hey, this is what you should be doing. And he [00:29:00] was like, that's a great idea. Let me put you in touch with my team. Well, they had already, it was already in the works. It wasn't entirely my idea, but that's one thing that I love's too about Kajabi, is that they're really responsive when they hear this feedback from people.
Like, Hey, you're, you're priced too high for the beginners. Yeah. You know, and that was, that was my feedback. And I was like, here, you need an entry level plan. And then they ended up rolling out the Kickstarter plan. So yeah, Kajabi is the best, but it's also like, it's, it's just really hard to get started and that's where bringing in a strategist, somebody who understands.
The tech behind everything. And like that strategy of what you should be using can be really helpful right from the beginning.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah, I love that. And it's, it really is I love the Kajabi. Like I use their podcast. So my podcast actually goes out on Kajabi and [00:30:00] then gets syndicated out to everywhere else.
Right. So it makes it super easy. I don't have to go everywhere and just put it, it does it by itself and I don't have to pay for another company to do it. Like it just does it. Right. And then it's like my emails in there. So I do all my email, I have my lending pages, I have oh my gosh, like everything else, and they're all my sales.
I use Kajabi Payments, right? Yeah. So I use them to do payments, and it's actually kind of nice. I mean, I had one situation where someone didn't quite understand the concept of a payment plan, and they were like, oh, I, I'm done with it already, so I don't wanna pay anymore. And I was like. That's, that's not how it works.
And so they actually went to the credit card company and said that it was, uh, it wasn't a charge. They approved. So then the credit card company came to Kajabi. 'cause I use Kajabi Payments. But the cool thing is Kajabi was like, Hey, if you wanna dispute this, here's all those things you need to give us and we'll dispute it for you.
Like, that's cool because then I was like, well, how do I dispute this? They still need to pay me $1,500. So this isn't cool that they're just canceling like [00:31:00] this. And so this is where you have to have your. Terms and conditions really tidy. You have to have a lot of the backend stuff really, really tidy.
So if you do payment plans, which I'm not gonna be doing anymore because I've been having a lot of problems with them but if you choose to do them, you want all this tidy and then you wanna work with a company like Kajabi where they can help you dispute it, they can help you with other stuff, right?
They have different payment plans if you want to do it. I did mine through, I made my own and then did it through Kajabi. 'cause people were in areas that the companies for payment plans don't work out there, right? They're in different countries. So there's a lot of different things, but I love Kajabi. I think it's really cool.
So that's neat that you got to actually talk with you got to kind of make some comments to the CEO and kind of be like, here's the thing. And I love companies that wanna grow like that because again, remember you talked about in the beginning about the person who did really well and the person who kind of didn't do as well.
It's like it's laying that foundation, right? Which is. Talking a lot about what you have, what it is you do, the [00:32:00] podcast, YouTubes, all that stuff is your foundational, but being responsive to what your audience wants and needs, like, that's super, super important. If a company wants to keep going, and there's so many companies out there right now that are dying, right?
Like there's a lot of companies that are saying, oh, I can create your landing pages, I could do these things, and they're just kind of like a little tiny spark and there's nothing there where kajabi's like, yeah, we've made it really easy for you to build. So let's talk a little bit about what you can build right in the, in the landing page is what you can kind of build on Kajabi and what are you helping your clients with?
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Susie Hines: Yeah. Primarily One of the things when I get started with a client is well, understanding what they are offering and whether this is one-on-one coaching or a digital course, like a do it yourself digital course or a, I call it a hybrid program. Something either [00:36:00] group coaching or a membership.
Something that usually has a mix of, you know, personal touch and some sort of like automated or do it yourself learning. So you can set those all up in Kajabi. It's just a, you're structuring your offer in a different way to deliver that content. What I always recommend, like we, like I mentioned earlier, starting with the moneymaker, starting with that one-on-one coaching offer, it's the quickest way.
To make money and to validate your ideas before you're investing a bunch of time, money, effort, into building, you know, a massive digital course. So that's kind of the, the path that I recommend for people starting with their one-on-one coaching. So you can make some money then using the feedback that you get from your audience to maybe create a digital course that you [00:37:00] can use to support your coaching or as a, a standalone offer or as a down sell for the people who can't afford one-on-one coaching.
So setting that all up in, in Kajabi and then Prioriti. Yeah, prioritizing the money maker and then the lead mag or the, the lead generation, which could be offering a freebie, just having an email nurture sequence. Creating a community so that you can get people in and hear, get this feedback from them.
All those things are what will help you in the future, like develop your offers. I just, it's really important to me that people, well, number one, are listening to their audience. Number two, are understanding their Kajabi. Like I can set you up from the beginning, but my goal is always to empower my clients to manage their own account on their [00:38:00] own.
And like all the clients who I work with, I have a, a course, it's like a resource library where they have video lessons, so everything that they need to, that they might need to do on their own in the future, there's a video lesson for that because I don't want them to have to come back to me and, you know, who knows if I'm even available.
I want them to have that resource so that they can eventually, you know, manage everything on their own and they're not dependent on anyone else to run their business for them.
Christina Kokologiannakis: I love that. That's, that's fantastic. And you mentioned the building, the communities. Have you helped anyone build I haven't done this before, that's why I'm asking.
Have you helped anyone build a community with the Kajabi's community? Mm-hmm. How is that? Yeah. Do they like it? How does that
Susie Hines: work? Yeah, and communities is, it's a new-ish feature in Kajabi and, you know, it's, it's hard. I think it can be hard. It really depends on who your audience [00:39:00] is because just getting your members or your community to log into a different platform is, it's different, you know, versus if you have a Facebook group, like people are already on.
So it's a lot easier for them to like kinda pop in and outta these groups. Uh, where I've seen it, the community feature in Kajabi be more successful is when the content is a little bit more intimate. Hmm. So this could be like, I work with a lot of alcohol freedom coaches, so their community maybe doesn't want to be in a Facebook group, even if it's private, even if it's closed, that's just not where they want to be sharing their, you know, alcohol freedom journey.
Uh, I had another client who helps people with concussion recovery. So she, and these are people who, who are having, you know, [00:40:00] very serious challenges in their day-to-day, just cognitive functioning in their day-to-day life again. Sharing that on Facebook might not seem, seem right for them. It's also really noisy and distracting.
Mm-hmm. And if you are in recovery from concussions then that, that noise and that distraction is not helpful. So it's this like closed unit. It's a little bit more private, it's a little bit more intimate, and I think that that helps 'em to share. So the community feature, I've set it up for a handful of clients, always in conjunction with a, a digital course.
So again, usually there's some sort of on demand lessons or material. And then there's the community which functions a lot like Facebook, there's a, a feed and you can have go live, like have, have [00:41:00] your group coaching in there. But where I've seen it be the most successful is, uh, it depends on the content area.
Christina Kokologiannakis: What about, now? I know Kajabi also has the private podcast that you can do just for members, just for, you know, a group of people. I have not used that yet. I've, I've thought about it. Have you helped anyone use that feature? I haven't set that up. Okay. For
Susie Hines: anyone yet? Partly somebody was asking if it's possible to drip out content, like drip out your podcast.
Mm-hmm. Episodes and, and because they, which I recommended just using a product for that. So there's just this kind of like tech figuring out, okay, I wanna charge for this. I wanna charge money. It's a private feature. But you can't drip out your content. 'cause it's, it's, then once you [00:42:00] have access to a podcast, you have access to all the episodes.
Yeah. So that was like the, the barrier kind of there. Oh. But then, so it was on, I suggested setting it up as a product, but then they wanted it to be available in the, like the the RSS feed mm-hmm. For podcasts. So, so no, I haven't, I haven't set that up yet for anybody, but Right. That's another, that's another feature that you could use as part of a community or a group coaching program or a membership, is that private podcast.
And, I mean, I love podcasts because it is so, it's just so easy to multitask right. Like we watching a YouTube video is fine, like if you need to see that visual content, but. I'm way more likely to listen to a podcast if I can do it while I'm walking my dog or doing the dishes. So I, [00:43:00] I, I love like having that, the podcast feature and the distribution that people can just get it on whatever podcast platform they're already on, rather than having to go through the Kajabi app to access their content that way.
So,
Christina Kokologiannakis: yeah, I think that's cool. I mean, it's one of those things is your private one. Like you can use a private podcast for so many different things, but this is where you really wanna have an expert like Susie, because it's like, if you have tech behind it, it's like, how? 'cause this is where I struggle sometimes.
It's like, well, I wanted to do this one thing. I wanted to work a certain way. And then you have to step back and say, okay, well then am I gonna make it a product? Am I gonna uh, attach it to a course I'm doing? Am I going to, I'm trying to think. There's so much in there. It's like, okay, when do I want it to come out?
How do I want people to see it? Like, and then we have to, in the back end, you have to link it and attach it. So like, I remember when I first started in Kajabi, I created the course and I was like, okay, this is awesome. But I never linked my course to my offer. So [00:44:00] when people bought, they didn't get the course, then I had to go figure out how to actually make sure that they got access to the course.
Right? Or if someone doesn't pay you or something else, you have to learn how to unlink someone from things because they didn't pay you for it. So it's not just the creation. And this is, I think what. Holds back so many women who are trying. So I'm all about building the empire, right? It's like taking what you're doing, moving the next level of income, making it effortless.
'cause everyone always complains and they're like, I don't wanna make half a million. It's too much work. Or I don't wanna make a million. 'cause it's too much work to get there. I was just talking to a friend who makes a million and she's like, I don't wanna get to five. And I was like, why? And she's like, because I need a bigger team.
I need a bigger this, I need a bigger that. And I don't wanna do all the work. And I'm thinking in my mind going, it doesn't have to be that complicated. And it's not that complicated, right? Like I'm working to hit to 10 million. It's like, it's not hard. You just have to jump different levels and say, I wanna go to the next level.
How can I simplify? And simplify? But [00:45:00] I remember when I was figuring out Kajabi, it felt so hard. And so when a lot of women are getting into the tech, right? And they have small teams and they're trying to figure it out. It seems overwhelming, right? So I'm sure you get that with a lot of your clients when they come in as well.
Susie Hines: Yes, and that is, I mean, really that is the value in hiring a strategist. Even if you are just doing, if you just wanna do like a consult or a strategy session, like a lower priced if, if you are on a shoestring budget, you know, you have less to invest. But that's a really critical part place to bring somebody in because, and I mean, I, I can see myself, like when somebody says I want to create a new offer, even, you know, two years ago or three years ago, I didn't have [00:46:00] all these questions firing in my brain as quickly and as as like accessible as I do now.
Because I've seen so many different businesses and so many different Kajabi accounts, and I've seen what all these interdependencies are, so it's like way quicker for me to get to those Right. Questions. Yeah. And somebody says, you know, I want an offer. Like, oh, I'm just selling this $197, you know, digital course.
That's all. It feels really simple. But then you're like, oh, like you mentioned earlier you were talking about the the payment plan. Yep. Right. Okay. Do you have a purchase agreement for this? Are you giving them lifetime access? Yeah. What does that mean? Are you actually, is there a product access date connected in the background?
Are you connecting your offer to the product? Yeah, like there's a lot that goes [00:47:00] into this and if you set up those foundation, if you have somebody to guide you through those right questions, you're gonna set it up the right way from the beginning, which really is gonna like cover your butt in the long time, in the long term because you're not getting those payment fails or you're not getting those card disputes.
Yeah. And you're just having happy customers who they buy and they get the thing that they
Christina Kokologiannakis: just
Susie Hines: paid
Christina Kokologiannakis: money for. It works. It's like, I, I ha it's rare that I'll have these experiences with bigger names, that I had a bigger name and I bought a product and then I was like waiting and waiting and then I literally had to eat a meal like seven times because they weren't really responsive.
And they're like, oh, we're so sorry they messed. 'cause o obviously it's supposed to trigger and just go, but it didn't. And I was just like, come on guys, you're like a huge team. I'm like, I got like a small little team over here. Like, you gotta be able to run this. But it gives people, now when you're small, you can tell people, Hey, I'm small, you know?
And let people [00:48:00] know. I think that's another thing a lot of women feel like I need to puff myself up and look huge and big and I'm amazing, but instead be real. I'm small, right? Like, like I don't, it's just me. I have my editor for my YouTubes and my podcast. I have someone who kind of helps 'em do some of that stuff.
I have a social media manager. I do the rest. That's, that's me, right? I had a huge team for a while and I was making okay money, but I wasn't making enough money to validate the team that I was hiring. And so I had this four or five person team doing a lot of stuff, and I stepped back going, I'm paying them a lot of money and I'm not making the money I want.
Like I don't feel like I need them, and I realize I gotta get scrappy. I gotta get back to basics and kind of do what I need to do to make sure that I'm actually moving where I need to go. Right. And I feel like a tech background, it's just like when you explain it, I feel like when you're looking at Kajabi, it's better in the beginning, especially like for what you're doing, where you're not just creating the landing pages and you're like, oh, I'm just gonna set up a landing page.
It's [00:49:00] so much more, you're helping them with the backend, you're helping them with the setup, you're helping them get it functioning the right way. And I would pay someone like Susie to come in and to actually set it up versus just being like, I'll figure it out. Because I'll tell you, if you get her in there to get it set up right from the get go, you have more time to focus on sales, more time to focus on the product, more time to focus on the offer.
What is it? How are you gonna pitch it? How are you gonna launch it? And she can be in the backend doing all the work. So when you're ready. It's just going and flowing, which I think is super, super cool. So now I want you to tell me as we're approaching the end of our podcast if someone is listening and they're overwhelmed with a messy Kajabi account what is the very first thing that they should fix today?
Susie Hines: Have they already been
Christina Kokologiannakis: using Kajabi? Assume they've been using it for a bit because most of the people who are listening have been in business, they're making money. But I'm sure they have a very, very messy Kajabi [00:50:00] account because I will tell you, mine was really messy. It still is kind of messy.
So what's the best way about going and fixing it and getting it cleaned up?
Susie Hines: Great question. Uh, I would say, okay, so this is something that I do for all my clients. I create a spreadsheet that has direct links to all the pieces of their Kajabi account. Because like we just mentioned, let's say you're selling a course, so you are creating a product, an offer, maybe more than one offer a sales page, a thank you email sequence, a thank you page, that's five things.
And you have, so I'll set up a spreadsheet that has links to all those pieces just centralized in one place. Mm-hmm. So that, you know, on this sales page, these are the offers that I'm presenting. If I wanna change the price, I have that spreadsheet, I can go right there. [00:51:00] So, and this is, to me, it's, it's just like something that, well, of course you would set up a spreadsheet, but I realize that my brain works differently than a lot of people's Yes.
Right. So I set that up. I just have a template that I share and I, I fill it in and then they've got that really quick access to everything. So if your Kajabi account is a mess, I would start a spreadsheet. I can share it with people. I don't have this like set up yet, but honestly I would just share my template out because it's so useful.
Yeah. And do your own audit of your Kajabi account. Go through your pages and plug 'em all into a spreadsheet. And then in one place, you know, list out what, what offers are. Am I presenting on this page? Is it an uh, a form? Is there an event? Is there, you know, an email sequence associated with this? Plug it all into one place.[00:52:00]
Do your own self audit. Establish naming conventions. Like this is something, people name their pages, these crazy things. And then they're like, wait, what is this? What am I, I can't find the
Christina Kokologiannakis: page.
Susie Hines: And they're like, what am doing? I know
Christina Kokologiannakis: why. Or I have
Susie Hines: 35 thank you pages. Like what is,
Christina Kokologiannakis: here's the, what is connected to what?
Wait. And here's the funny thing about it. I hired a big team to help me. Right? So creating page, we're creating different things. And here's the funny thing. They named it the weirdest crap. Yeah. That like, I couldn't even find it. Then the next team I hired, I had to have actually pay extra money from them to go in, figure out what the pages were, rename them, right?
Because I was like, I don't know what, what's going on here? Like they named it like Sales page two. Sales page four. And I was like. How am I supposed to know what that is? How do you find that? Like it didn't think they'd be like, thank you, page one. Like, how do I like, and they weren't even linked together.
It wasn't like sales page one went with thank you page one. It was just really bizarre. [00:53:00] I love, love, love the idea of the spreadsheet because when you're inside Kajabi, like there's so many pages and then you start not using pages, but you don't wanna delete pages. I think that's super, super cool. So you have this spreadsheet.
I interrupted you, that's why I apologize. But like you, you have this spreadsheet, people are filling it out and auditing it, and then talk to us a little bit more about it.
Susie Hines: Yeah. And then from there, and I mean, I, I get it. I do the same thing. Like I create something and then I forget that I created it and it is still just out there on the internet and I'm like, I don't know.
There might be like a four or four page error message somewhere. Like, I get it. It takes maintenance. Yes. You know, it takes like stay getting in there, going through cleaning stuff up like your, you use this page for a promotion once, you know, yeah, you can, you can get rid of it. Another thing that is super useful is creating a template landing page.
So what I do is, [00:54:00] again, this is just what a service that I is included in all my projects. One landing page that has your brand colors, your fonts, your header navigation, your logo your footer navigation. And so then in the future, if you're creating a new page, you have a new offer or event or freebie or something, you clone that template landing page and you know that, you know your header navigation, your logos are right, like your favicon.
All these little pieces that are hard to remember to do every time you create a new page. If you clone that template landing page and then just add the content that's relevant to that, you know, offer initiative you have going on, you at least know that everything looks like it comes from the same business.
You don't have different fonts on different pages and different like colors and your footer. This is the type of thing that I notice, like I'm very detail oriented, so I'm like, oh, it looks like you're using 11 point [00:55:00] font on this page, and this page is 12 point. So like, let's get that. Let's get that cohesive so that you can tell that it's all from the same business and it just saves you time.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Well, I love it. 'cause your brain works so differently and this is where it came back to you being the virtual assistant, you being the imple, uh, implementer, like you doing these kind of things. 'cause you started seeing this because like for my me, right? I am a big strategy brain. I can see the big strategy, I can break it down, I can make really good money off a lot of stuff.
But when it starts coming to this tech stuff, when it starts coming down to other things that I don't enjoy as much, I struggle. My brain doesn't see how to really do it and how to process it. So even having a template like that. I love that because you are right. A lot of people, what they'll do is they'll just be like, oh, I'm gonna create a new sales page.
Like I wanna do a sales page. They go into Kajabi and they just search the templates, click on it, and then they start from scratch, [00:56:00] changing this, changing that, doing this. And it's like, it's a lot of work. Now, if you're creating a whole new offer and you wanna create things or change it, it's fine. But I will tell you to remember to go through, and maybe this is like another spreadsheet where you're like, here's all the things you should go through and here's all the things that your page should have.
Because you go through it and you're like, did I change this? Did I change that? Do I have this? Is that right? A lot of times we just look at it and say, is the content good and is it pretty? But we forget so many different elements of it.
Susie Hines: Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good point, just having that checklist, like, you know what, when, when Susie looks at your page, like, here are the 15 things that I'm gonna notice right away.
And just going through those on your own.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Yeah. No, I think that's really important. I love our conversation today and I know you have something special to give away to our listeners today. What is that?
Susie Hines: Yeah, it's the audience alignment toolkit and this, this is the thing [00:57:00] that I wish everyone would do when they're primarily, when you're first getting started, but also if you are shifting gears.
I work with a lot of clients who, you know, get started, kind of bootstrapping it and then they get really like focused in on their messaging, which is awesome. They shift direction. So the audience insight toolkit is a video training and a a messaging framework. So this video training will walk you through this kind of research process that I suggest people do.
Doing keyword research, which means you're literally just looking at, you're asking Google, like, what are people searching when it comes to this content area? So, and keywords everywhere, answer the public. There are all these awesome resources that will tell you what it is that people are asking for. So [00:58:00] you do this research, you hop into these like Facebook groups or communities.
You listen to what people are saying, uh, and then you kind of take that and you build your brand messaging framework. And this is so, so helpful for everything that comes in the future. Creating the content for your, for your course or for your offer. Uh, establishing content pillars so that if you are creating content for YouTube, for your podcast, for your blog.
They're, they're all, it's all like, you're, you're kind of following a framework for what you're talking about. So this, yeah, the audience Inside Toolkit is available. So it's a, a video training and then, you know, a framework that you fill out and then you use this guide, it's just a Google doc and you use it for everything you create in the future.
Your sales pages, your marketing emails, your Instagram content, [00:59:00] everything. Yeah. So that's what we have for people and it's like, it's so useful. It's such a great way to get started. Whether you are DIYing it or hiring a consultant, this is a great place to start from.
Christina Kokologiannakis: Awesome. I'm gonna put the link in the show notes.
So go ahead, ahead to the show notes if you're interested. And Susie, how can people find you and connect with you if they wanna learn more, or even if they wanna work with you?
Susie Hines: Yeah, my website is elevating expertise.com, and you can look me up on YouTube too, just to look for elevating expertise or Susie Hines.
I'm not, I don't really, I don't do social media. So you can find my website
Christina Kokologiannakis: or YouTube. I love that. That's okay. That's YouTube is my favorite place. I tell people Yeah, you know, Instagram, it's funny, I was just talking to a company who wanted to sell me their services and they're like, we'll get you a million views on, on Instagram.
I'm like, okay, it's great. Instagram's okay, but I'm like. It doesn't make you money. Instagram is the breadcrumbs [01:00:00] that get somebody to your YouTube or to your podcast. Your long form content, your long form content. Like what we're doing here is what sells people, right? So they're hearing you, you're they're, you're in their ear, they're thinking about you.
They're like, well, that's a cool strategy. That's cool information. And they hang out longer. And that's where you make your sales, right? Where people get really interested. Where Instagram not so much. Maybe if you're selling a product and you're just showing a product off, that's different. But for what our people do, not so much.
So that's okay that you're not there. We'll put all the links into the show notes. But Susie, thank you so much for your time. I had so much fun. Everybody go watch her videos. They are amazing. If you're on Kajabi and you're just like, I am struggling to figure this out, or I'm not sure where to start, watch some of her videos and then reach out to her and ask her about her services and what she can do for you, because she is really cool.
Like she looks at things completely different and I love her strategies on. So Susie, thank you again for joining us here. Appreciate it. [01:01:00]
Susie Hines: Thank you. And sorry, one more thing. If you do watch my YouTube videos, if you have any questions, just comment, tell me your questions and I'll create, I create like dedicated YouTube videos because in direct response to questions people have asked.
Christina Kokologiannakis: It is like, it's so fun for me. I love that. So, oh yeah, I love that. And subscribe to her channel too, because that helps everybody, right? Like I always tell everybody, subscribe to my, subscribe to hers. You don't wanna miss any of this. Susie, thank you so much. And everybody, if you wanna get a more deeper insight into what she does check her out on my YouTube, right?
'cause we're all talking about YouTube. It's gonna be more specific, more detail oriented so that you can take action. But we are gonna head over to YouTube right now. We'll see you over there. Thank you, Susie. We'll talk to everyone next week. Thank you.
